HISTSEX ARCHIVES: October 2000
© Lesley Hall and list contributors
Date: 2 Oct 2000 18:59:46 -0000
From: "Histsex:For historians of sexuality" <histsex-owner@listbot.com>
Subject: [histsex] Welcome to all new members
There seems to have been quite an influx of new members in the last few
weeks (or maybe simply old subscribers resubscribing after the summer
break?). This is my periodic message to invite new subscribers to the list
to introduce themselves and their interests in the history of sexuality,
or indeed, old members to reintroduce themselves &/or talk about their
current interests.
I also remind list members of the History of Sexuality research register:
if you would like to be entered on this,
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/hofsresr.htm, please contact me at
lesleyah@primex.co.uk with your details - contact e-mail (and snailmail if
you like), affiliation if any, and your research interests, preferably in
terms that other people might search under.
Best to all
Lesley Hall
histsex-owner@listbot.com
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 19:15:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elise R Chenier <3erc3@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: [histsex] Wolfenden Report and Introduction
Greetings,
My name is Elise Chenier, I am a graduate student in the history
department at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. My doctoral
thesis seeks to show how psychiatric ideas became part of our popular
cultural understanding of human sexuality. I locate the popularizarion of
psychiatric and psychoanalytic interpretations in the post-WWII sex crime
panic, and examine the introduction of treatment programs for sex
offenders, track the changing meanings of homosexuality and manage to fit
in some women's history to boot.
I am currently planning a post-doc research trip to London to look at the
period between the Wolfenden Report and the 1967 Sexual Offences Act. I
am hoping that list members might help me identify
currently ongoing (ie not yet published) or published work on the Reports,
and on sex, the law and psychiatry in Britain in the period in general.
Personal queries and data base searches have thus far yeilded Antony
Grey's _Quest for Justice: towards homosexual emancipation_ and Patrick
Higgins' _Heterosexual Dictatorship_. Any help list members can offer would be
greatly appreciated.
Regards, Elise Chenier
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: JJ Pionke <deepforestowl@yahoo.com>
Subject: [histsex] Introduction
Hello all! I am an undergrad at Truman State
University in Missouri. I am working on a paper for a
grad class I am taking. The paper is called Gays and
Lesbians in World War II. I have had an ongoing
interest in GLBT issues during the WWII period and
have written a paper on Nazi Policy and Gay and
Lesbians. I hope to go on to grad school in english
and do my thesis on lesbian writers from this period.
I am having a lot of fun researching this paper, as
much as I did the last one. I find History of
Sexuality to be fascinating and a lot of fun. My
professor, Steven Reschly, told me that histsex was an
invaluable tool and a lot of fun to boot. So here I
am! JJ Pionke
___________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 13:03:47 -0400
From: "Roberto C. Ferrari" <rferrari@fau.edu>
Subject: [histsex] Welcome to all new members
Hi, everyone. Per the request, I thought I'd introduce myself to the list.
My sexual history research focuses mostly on gay male studies of the late
Victorian period to early modern period (ca. Bloomsbury) in Britain. Our
early concepts of homosexuality as a lifestyle, rather than physical act,
were first written down and believed by individuals starting sometime
around the 1860s. Even more important, however, is the proliferation of a
gay subculture which flourished in England at this time. Certainly one had
flourished earlier than this, but with the rise of the middle class and
more interaction between classes, homosexuality as a lifestyle started to
bridge the gap between the extreme classes. Consider, for instance, the
stories of the Cleveland Street Affair of 1889, the stories of John Saul
the male prostitute, and of course Oscar Wilde's trials of 1895.
I have focused my research mostly on the work and world of Simeon Solomon
(1840-1905). Solomon was a Jewish artist who early in his career was
influenced by the Pre-Raphaelites, eventually befriending Dante Gabriel
Rossetti, Algernon Charles Swinburne and Edward Burne-Jones (all of whom
had their own interesting sexual predilections). Solomon was arrested in
1873 for public indecency when he was discovered having sexual relations
with another man in a public urinal in London. He was declared an outcast
by his colleagues and attempts by certain individuals to "rescue" him were
unsuccessful. Over the past 25 years, there has been a gradual resurgence
of interest in him and his work. His post-1873 paintings often reflect a
dreamlike quality and reveal the androgynes typical of the Aesthetic and
Symbolist movements, most of which borders on homoeroticism and lesbianism.
I have recently made live on the Internet the Simeon Solomon Research
Archive, which is a repository of bibliographic information written about
him since approximately 1860. Eventually the site will have digital images
and more full-text added to it. If you're interested in looking at it, go
to http://www.fau.edu/solomon/.
==================================================
Roberto C. Ferrari
Head of Access Services
Arts & Humanities Librarian
Wimberly Library
Florida Atlantic University
777 Glades Rd., Boca Raton, FL 33431
PHONE: 561-297-3575
FAX: 561-338-3863
EMAIL: rferrari@fau.edu
WEB: http://www.fau.edu/library/people/rferrari.htm
==================================================
___________________________________________________________________From: JNKATZ1@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:12:10 EDT
Subject: [histsex] Seeking email of Gillian Rodger
I'm seeking the current email address of Gillian Rodger who was on this list
in March. Thanks
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:20:00 +0100 (BST)
From: M Houlbrook <mhoulb@essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Wolfenden Report and Introduction
Dear Elise
There's a lot of work that's either being done or is ongoing in the area
you're talking about. Chris Waters is currently working on a book going
under the name Queer Treatments, focusing on the development of
psychiatric conceptions of the homosexual and therapeutic responses. At
the moment he's focusing upon Edward Glover and the Institute for the
Scientific Treatment of Delinquency between the 1930s and 1960s. Chris has
also published on Peter Wildeblood and Wolfenden, 'Disorders of the Mind,
Disorders of the Body Social: Peter Wildeblood and the Making ofthe Modern
Homosexual', in Waters, Frank Mort and Becky Conekin (eds.), Moments of
Modernity, (Rivers Oram, 1999).
For other discussions of Wolfenden etc see
Frank Mort, 'Mapping Sexual London' (? not entirely sure on the title),
New Formations 37 1999.
Leslie Moran, The Homosexual(ity) of Law.
Jeffrey Weeks, Coming Out: Homosexual POlitics in GB, (first work in the
field 1977).
Stephen Jeffrey-Poulter, Peers, Queers and Commons.
I done a lot of work on Wolfenden myself, particualrly on the remapping
of the queer in the 1950s and 1960s. My thesis has a section on middle
class queer politics in the post war era and a forthcoming piece on
cottaging deals with Wolfenden to a large extent.
At any rate, hope this is of use. I'd be interested in hearing more about
your work. Feel free to email me (mhoulb@hotmail.com) when you're in the
UK. I'm based in Oxford.
Best
Matt Houlbrook
___________________________________________________________________
From: "James Paterson" <jimjamtwo@hotmail.com>
Subject: [histsex] Italy's sexual notoriety in 16th century England
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 01:08:22 GMT
All,
I'm a research student at the University of Sydney in the final phase of
putting together a dissertation on English travellers in Italy between 1540
and 1612. I'd be most interested in hearing from anyone who knows something
about the sexual dimension of Italy's reputation in Tudor and Jacobean
England. I can't say that I've uncovered as many sources shedding light on
the this subject as I had hoped, apart from Roger Ascham's The Scholemaster.
Can I solicit suggestions for primary sources of a non-travel nature (I've
covered these extensively already) that would shed light on the process by
which Italy became associated with sexual immorality? Presumably, Italian
vice was a fundamental aspect of anti-catholic polemic in the period, but I
haven't turned up anything useful as yet. Any suggestions anyone?
James Paterson,
Department of History,
University of Sydney.
___________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:17:11 -0400
From: Ellen Moody <Ellen2@JimandEllen.org>
Subject: [histsex] Italy's sexual notoriety in 16th century England
I hope my reply is not otiose (too obvious). Although it is not
the original source which lies in cultural readings of religious
attitudes (among other real life phenomena), nor is it the
first literary rendering which goes to the large books of
lurid tales so popular in the Renaissance (e.g., Bandello),
but the English drama was certainly the most influential.
The strongest dramas came a bit late for your interests,
but read _The Spanish Tragedy_, Marston, Middleton,
Ford, Webster, Tourneur (to whom _The Avenger's
Tragedy_ used to be attributed).
Cheers to all,
Ellen Moody
___________________________________________________________________From: "Hubert" <hubert.gieschen@users.breworld.net>
Subject: [histsex] Introduction; history of London pubs with striptease; Erotic art on churches
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:27:03 +0100
Hi everyone,
1) My name is Hubert Gieschen. I know I should have introduced myself a =
long time ago. I must have been too much in awe of all your academic =
achievements. I hold an MA in the History of Wales from the University =
of Wales, Aberyswyth College. Everyone who wants to know about the topic =
of my non-history of sexuality-related dissertation subject (Welsh =
devolution, especially the Labour Party and the 1979 referendum) is =
welcome to look at my web site www.madasafish.com/~hubertgieschen=20
(any feedback on whether the red dragon on the home page gets displayed =
by your browsers would be most appreciated).
2) My interest in the history of sexuality stems primarily from a desire =
to find out more about my adopted city of residence, London, and its =
social history. No other place seems to have a phenomenom to the extent =
London has: the strip pub as opposed to the upmarket American-style =
table dancing establishments.
3) Pubs with striptease in London appear to have originated in the East =
End, but can now be found everywhere in the capital and the suburbs. Any =
hints on how it oiginated from the music hall tradition is most =
appreciated. Whilst certain London boroughs, especially Hackney in the =
traditional East End seem to be intent on closing down as many venues as =
possible, the further away from the origins the official attituude =
appears more tolerant. I am most interested in changes of public =
attitudes and why. Perhaps it might even lead to a publication.
4) Another topic of interest is erotic art on churches. I know there are =
publications around, however, a recent visit to the tiny hamlet of Abson =
near Bristol in the W of England struck me as very depressing. A desire =
by the church to eradicate memories of paganism must have left local =
inhabitants seemingly completely ignorant as to the treasures displayed =
on their medieval church. How did this happen?
Enough said
Regards to everyone
Hubert
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Deeno" <deenoadkins@yahoo.com>
Subject: [histsex] Treasties on Man, Woman and Sex
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:58:41 -0700
We are well accustomed to the ideas of the prudish, sexually repressed
Victorians, who cautiously guarded themselves against any temptation, no
matter how slight. Critics and reader have largely and successfully
questioned this conception and proven it inaccurate. For during this period,
even in seeking any man or woman's ultimate goal in achieving the apparently
conservative happy ending of marriage, Victorians were inevitably led to the
consummation of their love and the creation one's own home and family. Sex
and sexuality, then, were unavoidable issues for the Victorians.
What exactly differentiated men from women and why the species evolved into
the two sexes, then, unsurprisingly confounded Victorian theorists such as
Herbert Spencer and Patrick Geddes. Thus, they and other specialists
constructed a stereotypical dyadic model. Other than the different sex
organs and physical differences, men were considered the active agents, who
expended energy while women were sedentary, storing and conserving energy.
Victorian theories of evolution believed that these feminine and masculine
attributes traced back to the lowest forms of life. A dichotomy of
temperaments defined feminine and masculine: an anabolic nature, which
nurtured versus a katabolic nature, which released energy respectively.
Such beliefs laid the groundwork for, or rather arose from, the separation
of spheres for men and women. According to the model, since men only
concerned themselves with fertilization, they could also spend energies in
other arenas, allowing as Spencer says:
"The male capacity for abstract reason... along with an attachment to the
idea of abstract justice...[which] was a sign of highly-evolved life."
On the other hand, woman's heavy role in pregnancy, menstruation (considered
a time of illness, debilitation, and temporary insanity), and child-rearing
left very little energy left for other pursuits. As a result, women's
position in society came from biological evolution -- she had to stay at
home in order to conserve her energy, while the man could and needed to go
out and hunt or forage.
Moreover, this evolutionary reasoning provided justification for the
emotional and mental differences between men and women. Geddes was led to
believe that:
"Male intelligence was greater than female, men had greater independence and
courage than women, and men were able to expend energy in sustained bursts
of physical or cerebral activity... Women on the other hand... were superior
to men in constancy of affection and sympathetic imagination... [they had]
'greater patience, more open-mindedness, greater appreciation of subtle
details, and consequently what we call more rapid intuition.'"
The roles of men and women understood as thus, the Victorians still had to
deal with the actual sexual act, wherein the bipolar model still held.
Earlier on in the century, women were considered the weaker, more innocent
sex. She had little to no sexual appetite, often capturing all the sympathy
and none of the blame over indiscretions. Men represented the fallen,
sinful, and lustful creatures, wrongfully taking advantage of the fragility
of women. However, this situation switched in the later half of the period;
women had to be held accountable, while the men, slaves to their katabolic
purposes and sexual appetites, could not really be blamed. Therefore, women
were portrayed either frigid or else insatiable. A young lady was only worth
as much as her chastity and appearance of complete innocence, for women were
time bombs just waiting to be set off. Once led astray, she was the fallen
woman, and nothing could reconcile that till she died.
Many artists and writers of the period did not accept such strict roles for
men and women in either their sexualities or their contributions to sexual
intercourse. The dyadic model set up for men and women permeated the age,
but only served to try to encourage an ideal. In real situations and in
fictional agendas, Victorians could recognize the complexities and areas of
gray.
Figures such as the Marquis de Sade and Casanova saturate our literary
history. Sexual innuendos inserted by authors of all sorts of statuses run
rampant throughout novels, pamphlets, discourseseven religious texts. Retif
de-la-Bretone (1776), a contemporary of the Marquis de Sade, and derided as
the "Rousseau of the Gutter", wrote volumes about the "peasant" class and
the subject of "vice", from incest to prostitution.
Michael Mason says in "The Making of Victorian Sexuality" that widespread
sexual repression in the Victorian era is a myth, with between a third and a
half of women pregnant at marriage, middle class couples kissing and
cuddling in public and "unbridled sexual intercourse" in working-class dance
halls. Another study of a Dorset village found eight out of ten births were
illegitimate between 1770 and 1790. There is no evidence that this was
typical of the whole country but does suggest our view of all Victorians as
morally strict is incorrect. Mason also claims the Victorians were fully
aware of female sexuality. Dr William Acton's famous quote that most women
are "not troubled by sexual feeling of any kind" was written to help young
men afraid of impotence. Victorian doctors knew about female orgasm as seen
in their writings and teaching. And so did the people.
Sex can overcome class barriers. It is speculated that Elizabeth I had an
affair with a manshead, or stable master. To give an idea, the diary of a
female member of the notorious French sex club the Aphrodites, lists nearly
5,000 amorous encounters over a period of twenty years. By the breakdown of
profession:
"272 princes and prelates, 929 officers, 93 rabbis, 342 financiers, 439
monks, 420 society men, 288 commoners, 117 valets, 2 uncles, 12 cousins,
119 musicians, 47 Negroes, and 1,614 foreigners (during an enforced absence
to London, probably during the Revolution)"
To have a lover was fashionable; to have them by the droves, without regard
to station or publicity, was scandalous. For the average well to do person,
who craved a little excitement, attending a masque proved admirably
effective. Masquerading in magnificent costumes and dominoes, they were
borne to the party in sedan chairs on the shoulders of servants or
hirelings. After each person preformed his "party piece" and was applauded,
the guests turned to more "unstructured" play.
The behavior was quite opposite to that of the conventional social fair, and
introductions were often discouraged. Whispers, suggestive remarks,
squeezes, kisses, and petting were the norm. There were rooms to retire and
unmask, or to bed a masked stranger. Usually it was only the man to unmask.
A letter from a Mr. Temple to James Boswell summed up the philosophy of the
day:
"A little occasional amorous dalliance, it is to be hoped, all of us may
innocently enough allow ourselves; but then such intercourse ought to be
occasional, when nature will not be defined; and the desire being satisfied,
the object should be thought of no more. Perhaps this reasoning may shock
your delicacy (it once shocked mine), but unhappily in our present
circumstances it is but common sense and common prudence."
Mr. Temple was none other than Reverend William Johnson Temple, noted clergy
and essayist. Prudish? It was an era of discovery at all levels of science,
many just coming into reality. Constitutionalism and capitalism was
developing. It was a time of celebration and enlightenment. Why then would
then not explore and express themselves sexually as well as intellectually.
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primexplus.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Treasties on Man, Woman and Sex
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:30:39 GMT
Ummm ... if anyone is interested in this subject might
I allude to my own essay, 'The Other in the Mirror:
Sex Victorians and Historians',
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/sexvict.htm?
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jenneke Quast" <jqu@iisg.nl>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:34:35 +0200
Subject: [histsex] Introduction of new subscriber
Dear Histsex subscribers,
I am a new subsciber to the list. My name is Jenneke Quast, I work in
the Digital Projects department of the International Institute of
Social History, Amsterdam, The Netherlands. My tasks include the
compilation of ViVa, an online bibliography of women's and gender
history (http://www.iisg.nl/~womhist/vivahome.html), and the
maintenance of the World Wide Web Virtual Library of Women's History
(http://www.iisg.nl/~womhist/vivalink.html). I was one of the
organizers of the recently held workshop on "Free Love and the Labour
Movement", Amsterdam, 6-7 October
(http://www.iisg.nl/~womhist/freelove.html). I have joined the list
because the history of sexuality, naturally, has much ground in
common with women's and gender history.
Jenneke Quast
Internationaal Instituut voor Sociale Geschiedenis
Cruquiusweg 31
NL-1019 AT Amsterdam
jqu@iisg.nl
http://www.iisg.nl/~womhist/
http://www.iisg.nl/occasio/
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: [histsex] bibliographical help
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:43:15 +0100
Does anyone out there have full bibliographical citations fo rthe following
articles? They might be of use to some of you anyway. This includes first
initials of the authors, as well as page numbers, etc.
Cheerio, Ivan
xxx Sadger, "Zur Aetiology der konträren Sexualempfindung," Medizinische
Klinik, 2 (1909), pp.xxx-xxx
xxx Jekels, "Eininge Bemerken zur trieblehre," Internationale Zeitschrift
für Aerztliche Psychoanalyse, (Sept., 1913), pp.xxx-xxx
xxx Ortvay, in Internationale Zeitschrift für Aerztliche Psychoanalyse,
(Jan., 1914)., pp. xxx-xxx
H. Ellis, A note on hypogfagogic pramnesia' in Mind, ns, 1897, pp. xxx-xxx
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Leslie Ambedian <ambedian@yorku.ca>
Subject: [histsex] introduction
Greetings, all. I recently joined histsex, and thought I ought to join the
round of introductions. I am a doctoral student in the English programme
at York University in Toronto. My research (which is still in its infancy,
if not pre-natal) is concerned with sadomasochism as a model of power
exchange in Victorian literature, particularly in women's writing.
Although most of my work is fairly removed from the sexual aspects of s&m,
I am also interested in power dynamics as expressed in Victorian
erotica. I've been doing some work recently on the propagation of cultural
stereotypes through historical fiction, particularly with regard to
Victorian sexuality (and of course, discovered this mailing list *after*
that particular paper went in...)
-Leslie
***
Leslie Ambedian "Soylent Green... ...is not people.
ambedian@wiznet.ca Soylent Green is kittens. We apologise
or ambedian@yorku.ca for the error."
http://www.wiznet.ca/~ambedian
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:41:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20O'Rourke?=" <tranquilised_icon@yahoo.com>
Subject: [histsex] Addresses query
Dear list,
I wonder if anyone can help me with the following
e-mail addresses which I am seeking:
-Jonathan Dollimore
-Alan Bray
-Jeffrey Weeks
-Randolph Trumbach.
Many thanks in advance,
Michael O'Rourke,
PhD student,
university College Dublin.
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:59:01 -0700
From: JILL SHEARER <JAZZ32@GTE.NET>
Subject: Re: [histsex] introduction
So, what have you learned??
Jill :-)
Leslie Ambedian wrote:
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> Greetings, all. I recently joined histsex, and thought I ought to join the
> round of introductions. I am a doctoral student in the English programme
> at York University in Toronto. My research (which is still in its infancy,
> if not pre-natal) is concerned with sadomasochism as a model of power
> exchange in Victorian literature, particularly in women's writing.
> Although most of my work is fairly removed from the sexual aspects of s&m,
> I am also interested in power dynamics as expressed in Victorian
> erotica. I've been doing some work recently on the propagation of cultural
> stereotypes through historical fiction, particularly with regard to
> Victorian sexuality (and of course, discovered this mailing list *after*
> that particular paper went in...)
>
> -Leslie
>
> ***
> Leslie Ambedian "Soylent Green... ...is not people.
> ambedian@wiznet.ca Soylent Green is kittens. We apologise
> or ambedian@yorku.ca for the error."
> http://www.wiznet.ca/~ambedian
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:44:33 -0500
From: "Lisa Johnson" <ljohnson@westga.edu>
Subject: [histsex] normal
I thought I'd mention how much i'm enjoying a new book of queer theory
that's very accessibly written and redirects the glbt movement in
important ways (argues we should stop trying to be recognized as
"normal" and start questioning the concept of normal as a conservative
policing tool). It's called THE TROUBLE WITH NORMAL, by Michael Warner.
So much queer theory is written in highly technical jargon. I got pretty
skilled at reading that style while in grad school; now that I'm
through, I choose to read/support accessible academic writing on
sexuality and social criticism instead.
Lisa Johnson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Visiting Assistant Professor
Dept. of English & Philosophy
State University of West Georgia
Carrollton, GA 30118
"And watching Monte ride off through the long grains, I thought about
the way we invent ourselves through our stories, and in a similar way,
how the stories we tell put walls around our lives. And I think that
may be true about cowboys. That there really isn't much truth in my
saying cowboys are my weakness; maybe, after all this time, it's just
something I've learned to say."
*Pamela Houston, "Cowboys Are
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:50:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: Leslie Ambedian <ambedian@yorku.ca>
Subject: Re: [histsex] introduction
Ask me in about 3 years -- I still have field exams to get through before
this really gets underway...
Actually, I've learned that you get some really funny looks when you tell
people you're interested in sadomasochism and the Victorians. My favourite
response so far: "Oooh, a rich field to mine!" :)
-Leslie
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, JILL SHEARER wrote:
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> So, what have you learned??
> Jill :-)
>
Leslie Ambedian "Soylent Green... ...is not people.
ambedian@wiznet.ca Soylent Green is kittens. We apologise
or ambedian@yorku.ca for the error."
http://www.wiznet.ca/~ambedian
___________________________________________________________________From: "Julie Cox" <jmcjls@earthlink.net>
Subject: [histsex] my introduction
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:48:49 -0700
hi all
I'm a second year PhD student in the Literature Dept. of the University of
California at Santa Cruz. The literature I'm most interested is in American
Lit. from 1890-1945. So what's a nice girl like me doing on a list like
this, you ask? My approach is/will be the scientific discourse of sex,
sexuality and gender, and the ways in which these are infused into literary
characters.
Julie M. Cox
jmcjls@earthlink.net
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:20:03 -0700 (MST)
From: Tim Hodgdon <Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu>
Subject: [histsex] Two web sites of interest
List members:
I've recently found two web sites that may be of interest to historians of
sexuality:
Captive Daughters http://www.captive.org/
"Captive Daughters is a non-profit organization dedicated to ending the
sex trafficking of children, with special emphasis on the girl child."
Commercial Sexual Exploitation Resource Institute
"The Commercial Sexual Exploitation Resource Institute is a non-profit
organization established in 1996 to answer the need for a coordinated
community response to the expanding sex industry in Minnesota. The
Resource Institute maintains a periodical library on the causes and
effects of commercial sexual exploitation; publishes original research;
distributes original prevention and intervention materials; provides
professional training and consulting services; develops organizing
strategies to fight commercial sexual exploitation, advocates for the
civil rights of prostituted individuals and provides direct services to
survivors."
http://www.captive.org/Resources/Otherorganizations/CSERI.htm
Tim Hodgdon
Ph.D. candidate
Department of History
Arizona State University
Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu
___________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:04:13 -0400
From: "Roberto C. Ferrari" <rferrari@fau.edu>
Subject: [histsex] Victorian homosexual crimes
I'm wondering if someone can help clarify something for me re: the laws
regulating homosexuality in 19th-century Britain.
In my research on Simeon Solomon and turn-of-the-century homosexuality,
I've read a lot of information discussing the Labouchere Amendment and the
transformation of the subculture. I understand the laws relating to
buggery/sodomy, but what I'm confused about are the laws regulating public
indecency or indecent exposure at the time.
In Wendell Stacy Johnson's "Living in Sin" (1979), he cites (from a
photocopied source, not the original) the transcript of Simeon Solomon's
and George Roberts's conviction in 1873 for homosexual activity in a public
urinal. The charges denote that the two revealed their private parts for
more than 15 minutes and were about to procure the act of sodomy.
(Obviously someone must have been spying on them!) Based on the notion
that they were about to partake in sodomy, it is my understanding that at
that time, they should have received the minimum sentence of about a year
or so and the maximum of 10 years in prison. But Solomon was out in a
couple of weeks.
Any guesses why? I can't help but wonder if it's related to one of two
things: (a) his family's connection; (b) the charges were dropped because
of lack of evidence and/or modified to public indecency. If the charges
were modified, than what was the normal penalty for public
indecency/indecent exposure? Or was it simply that his family/friends
managed to get him off the hook? (George Roberts apparently served more
time than Solomon, by the way.) I have not seen the original court
records, so maybe the answer lies there.
-- Roberto
==================================================
Roberto C. Ferrari
Head of Access Services
Arts & Humanities Librarian
Wimberly Library
Florida Atlantic University
777 Glades Rd., Boca Raton, FL 33431
PHONE: 561-297-3575
FAX: 561-338-3863
EMAIL: rferrari@fau.edu
WEB: http://www.fau.edu/library/people/rferrari.htm
==================================================
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:22:49 +0100
From: "Peter Bartlett" <Peter.Bartlett@nottingham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Victorian homosexual crimes
In response to Roberto's question, I do not claim to have particular knowledge of this case, but
"being about to" commit sodomy is no more sodomy than "being about to" kill someone is
murder: if the act was not done, the full crime is not committed.
One of the legal things that, to my knowledge, no one has done any work on in a sexual context
for the nineteenth century are the crimes of attempt to commit a felony (sodomy, in this case), or
conspiracy to do so.
In the eighteenth century, attempt sodomy convictions were used routinely for what we would
later label indecent acts. The court does not seem overly concerned that there be proof that
conduct which would have lead to the full act of sodomy was interrupted with the individuals in
flagrante. I suspect, consistent with the nineteenth-century rationalisation of law, that this would
have changed by the 1870s, and that evidence would have had to be lead in the circumstances
Roberto describes that sodomy would have occurred but for the intervention and arrest of the
participants, but I may be wrong about that. In any case, this much better matches the facts as
Roberto describes them, and it would be worth checking whether Solomon was charged with
either attempt or conspiracy, since that would not carry the full penalty of the sodomy felony.
peter
(Dr.) Peter Bartlett
School of Law
University of Nottingham
Nottingham, NG7 2RD
0115 951-5709
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 07:52:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. G. McLaren" <amclaren@UVic.CA>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Victorian homosexual crimes
Roberto's question appears to relate to exhibitionism. In The Trials of
Masculinity (1997), pp.192-195 I noted the way in which English courts
treated such cases in the 19th century.
Angus McLaren
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Victorian homosexual crimes
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 18:21:08 +0100
>One of the legal things that, to my knowledge, no one has done any work on
in a sexual context for the nineteenth century are the crimes of attempt to
commit a felony (sodomy, in this case), or conspiracy to do so.
>
I have a tantalising reference to a thesis in progress as at 1997 or 8 at
the University of Manchester on the policing of homosexuality
pre-Labouchere, a footnote in D Vincent's book on Secrecy (which I don't
have to hand) - by this time the author may have finished and published
something but I haven't come across anything.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:59:37 -0400
From: Cristina Nelson <crn@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: [histsex] funny looks and research
>
>Actually, I've learned that you get some really funny looks when you tell
>people you're interested in sadomasochism and the Victorians. My favourite
>response so far: "Oooh, a rich field to mine!" :)
>
>-Leslie
>
I, too, get funny looks and wide smiles when I tell people who ask about my
(U.S. history) dissertation that it is on (U.S.) women's underwear,
1940-70."Is that history?" they ask...and men usually ask if they can be my
research assistants. *My* favorite responses include comments like "I
wonder if you can get financial support from manufacturers" and "Are you
in your cups?" Ain't academia grand?
Cristina Nelson
UNC-Chapel Hill
___________________________________________________________________From: "Hall ,Dr Lesley" <l.hall@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Ref for thesis on Victorian sodomy
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:44:12 +0100
I mentioned a vague recollection of this in a recent posting. The details
are (from footnote, p 129 of David Vincent, The Culture of Secrecy (1998)
Harry Cocks, 'Abominable Crimes: Sodomy, Law and Society, 1830-1885' ,
forthcoming PhD with Manchester University.
Does anyone know anything more about this &/or Cocks's work (name sounds
familiar?)
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:16:13 -0400
From: "Roberto C. Ferrari" <rferrari@fau.edu>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Ref for thesis on Victorian sodomy
Thanks to everyone for their contributions on this topic, and for this
information on Dr. Cocks's dissertation and the followup with his email
address. I intend to contact him to see if he can provide any more insight
into my original Solomon inquiry.
-- Roberto
==================================================
Roberto C. Ferrari
Head of Access Services
Arts & Humanities Librarian
Wimberly Library
Florida Atlantic University
777 Glades Rd., Boca Raton, FL 33431
PHONE: 561-297-3575
FAX: 561-338-3863
EMAIL: rferrari@fau.edu
WEB: http://www.fau.edu/library/people/rferrari.htm
==================================================
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:35:11 +0100 (BST)
From: M Houlbrook <mhoulb@essex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Ref for thesis on Victorian sodomy
Dear Lesley
Harry Cocks finished his PhD fairly recently. He's now a post-doc fellow
at Manchester. Email h.cocks@man.ac.uk
Best
Matt Houlbrook
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Hall ,Dr Lesley wrote:
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> I mentioned a vague recollection of this in a recent posting. The details
> are (from footnote, p 129 of David Vincent, The Culture of Secrecy (1998)
> Harry Cocks, 'Abominable Crimes: Sodomy, Law and Society, 1830-1885' ,
> forthcoming PhD with Manchester University.
> Does anyone know anything more about this &/or Cocks's work (name sounds
> familiar?)
> Lesley Hall
> lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:04:29 +0930
From: Leigh Summers <leigh.summers@adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Re: [histsex] funny looks and research
Hi Chrisitna, dont worry about the wry remarks. My phd was in corsetry
1850-1900, so I understand the bemusement you inevitably experience when
researching a topic like this. However, I am sure you will find that women in
particular are fascinated by yr material and offer insightful anecdotal
material. Good Luck, remember you are making a serious contribution to women's
history and the history of sexuality, so dont be rattled by negative remarks.
Best Wishes
Leigh summers
Cristina Nelson wrote:
___________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:28:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: <dheath@socrates.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: [histsex] introduction
Since many other lurkers have been coming forth and introducing
themselves to the list, I thought I'd take a shot at it. I'm currently in
the write-up stage of a dissertation entitled "Creating the Moral Colonial
Subject: Censorship in Australia and India, 1880 to 1939," which examines
the censorship of obscene publications in these two former colonies during
the above period (one chapter also explores Britain's role as moral censor
in the empire). My work is therefore on the peripheries of the history of
sexuality, although one of my chapters explores how censorship in
Australia was quite literally designed to promote the production of
Australian bodies (and hence put a stop to the declining birth rate and
prevent Australia from being overrun by the ever-freared 'Asiatic hordes.'
While I know that I will shortly have some questions that I'd like to pose
to the list, in the mean time if anyone out there is working on anything
remotely similar I'd be glad to hear from you.
Deana Heath
Ph.D. Candidate in History
U.C. Berkeley
___________________________________________________________________From: "N Hiley" <N.P.Hiley@ukc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: 'Sploshing'?
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 15:57:44 +0100
Well, according to the definition at
<http://www.deviantdesires.com/map/messy.html> it involves getting messy
with food or paint. To quote the expert - "Bill Shipton, publisher of
Splosh! Magazine (the UK's premiere messy fun mag) devides the messy crowd
into three main subgroups: wetlook (water) mudlarking (mud and clay) and
sploshing (food and paint, etc.). As a general rule, messy fans require that
mess be thrown on people wearing clothes, and some folks have a very
particular clothing they want to see doused. One Splosh! reader likes the
rain scenes in Indian films -- wet saris get him going. Interestingly
enough, rain is often a euphemism for sex anyway, sort of like the
waves-crashing-on-beach scene in From Here to Eternity."
Yours in silent amazement,
Nick Hiley.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hall ,Dr Lesley <l.hall@wellcome.ac.uk>
To: <histsex@listbot.com>
Sent: Friday, June 16, 2000 3:20 PM
Subject: 'Sploshing'?
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> A colleague of mine who is building up a research collection of
'tart-cards'
> as found in London phone-boxes, has recently come across one advertising
> 'sploshing services'. He and I have various surmises about what this might
> mean, but I thought I would run it past the collective wisdom of Histsex
to
> see if anyone has a more definite definition.
> Thanks
> Lesley
> lesleyah@primex.co.uk
> http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:19:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Haiduk Press <haidukpress@yahoo.com>
Subject: [histsex] Don Leon
I wonder whether anyone is familar with the history of
the poem with the above title. It is apparently by
Byron, but some claim it is a forgery. Why is that? Is
the original on view anywhere?
For those unfamiliar with it, it is an outspoken
defense of male love, making reference to many events
and individuals in Byron's life.
Andrei Foldes
___________________________________________________________________From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Reviews of interest
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:00:48 +0100
Lois Shawver. And the Flag Was Still There: Straight People, Gay People, =
and Sexuality in the U.S. Military. Haworth Gay and Lesbian Series. New =
York: Haworth Press, 1996. xiv + 262 pp. Notes, bibliography, index. =
$39.95 (cloth), ISBN 1-560-24909-9; $19.95 (paper), ISBN 1-560-23851-8. =
Reviewed by Miriam Ben-Shalom, Independent Scholar.
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=3D28826896467875
William H. McMichael. The Mother of All Hooks: The Story of the U.S. =
Navy's Tailhook Scandal. Foreword by Charles C. Moskos. New Brunswick, =
N.J. and London: Transaction Publishers, 1997. xvi + 377 pp. List of =
interviews, notes, and index. $32.95 (cloth), ISBN 1-56000-293-X. =
Reviewed by Francine D'Amico, independent scholar.
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=3D219899242205
Office of the OSD Inspector General. The Tailhook Report: The Official =
Inquiry Into The Events Of Tailhook '91. N.Y.: St. Martin's Press, 1993. =
250 pp. Bibliographical references. $10.95 (paper), ISBN 0-312-10392-8. =
Reviewed by J. Michael Brower, Georgetown University.
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=3D30071869153511
All reviews posted to H-MINERVA, the H-Net discussion network devoted to =
the study of women and war and women in the military, worldwide and in =
all historical areas, which includes a number of other reviews which may =
be of interest to members of histsex -
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showlist.cgi?lists=3DH-Minerva
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip Stokes" <philip.stokes@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Don Leon
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:53:57 +0100
My interest in Byron is extensive, but can't be said to amount to expertise.
Thus when I tell you I've not found Don Leon or a reference to him, it's
much more an indication that the poem's spurious than an authoritative
declaration on the subject.
I shall however ask around. Meantime, if you discover anything, I would be
most grateful if you would share it with me.
Regards,
P.
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:39:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Haiduk Press <haidukpress@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Don Leon
Hi,
The only thing of note that I think bears mention is
that it is clear to me that the final three couplets
are spurious. If anything they might have been culled
from the text by the author, or written but never
used. Also, looking at it I have found an obvious typo
or two, fault of the original transcriber, no doubt.
That is why I wanted to have a look at the manuscript.
Regards,
Andrei
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:59:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Angela Diaz <amdiaz86@yahoo.com>
I am a student from Florida International University
and I have to make a research about partial birth
abortion. I will appreciate any information you can
reach about it.
Angela
___________________________________________________________________From: Lesley Hall <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] partial birth abortion
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:53:14 GMT
There was some discussion of this on the list in
mid-April this year. Unfortunately it is not easy to
search the archives for a specific topic, but the
message numbers are in the early 1300s and upward, so
it should be possible to locate them.
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> I am a student from Florida International University
> and I have to make a research about partial birth
> abortion. I will appreciate any information you can
> reach about it.
>
> Angela
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
web site
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:53:05 +0100
From: Diane Mason <d.mason@bathspa.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] funny looks and research
Hi Leigh, Christina and everyone else researching the slightly off-beam aspects of
sexuality in Victorian culture. I get both funny looks and laughs when I tell
people my PhD is on the topic of 'Masturbation in Victorian Fiction and Medical
Culture' - the favoured comment of many is 'Oh, it must be a very hands-on project'
- I use it myself now before anybody else gets there! Anyway, all the best with
your research, it sounds fascinating, and never let anybody put you off.
With very best wishes,
Diane
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 07:47:44 -0700
From: JILL SHEARER <JAZZ32@GTE.NET>
Subject: Re: [histsex] funny looks and research
Can you share a few tidbits from the literature end of your research?
Thanks,
Jill Shearer
Jazz32@gte.net
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:20:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Angela Diaz <amdiaz86@yahoo.com>
Since what time the medicine is practicing partial
birth abortion in United States?
Angela Diaz
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: [histsex] help? Haire and Ellis
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:57:25 +0100
Dear All,
I am currently going over some notes I made at the Norman Haire papers in
the Fisher Library at Sydney University, and I came across the following
curious note:
***HE==>NH, 11/9/26(Fisher): Ellis is unable to go to the Congress being
planned by Moll in London, at which Haire spoke.***
Now, does anyone out there know what this Congress in LONDON could possibly
be, or, alternatively, have I conflated the 1929 WLSR Congress: although
going by the date, and the organiser, this seems wrong. Perhaps it was not
in London at all?
I know that Ellis did not go to the 1929 conf in London planned by
Hirschfeld... and I know that Haire had weird problems with Moll after a
falling out between the latter and Hirschfeld, and that Haire was adament
about not inviting Moll to the 1929 conf. But what is the deal here?
ANY information on this would be greatfully accepted: I am usually
interested in later Victorian stuff, and this is for my first research into
the 1920s medicalisation of sex and its organisation.
Cheerio, Ivan
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________From: Dean706@aol.com
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:42:49 EDT
Subject: [histsex] We want to buy your literary criticism
Tudor Rose Book Shop is an independent online bookseller, in business for
over three years. We are also an Amazon ZShop, but are in no way part of a
megalomaniacal corporate behemoth. Our behemoth is modest and quite
well-intentioned. We specialize in English and American Literature.
We are writing you because we want to expand our offerings of literary
criticism. Since it is academics and students who make up most of the market
for litcrit, it is to you that we are turning in order to replenish our stock.
If you have used or new volumes of literary criticism you want to sell, then
we want to hear about it. Just drop us a line in response to this email with
some idea of what you have, and whether it is hardcover or paperback, used or
new. We'll get back in touch with you.
Dean Niles
Tudor Rose Book Shop
www.abebooks.com/home/tudor_rose
___________________________________________________________________From: Lesley Hall <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Partial birth abortion
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:06:47 GMT
A very quick and superficial web search indicates that
this term came into use approximately 1995 in the USA
to describe the pre-existing operation of dilatation
and extraction used in late abortions. The search also
indicates that the meaning of this term is somewhat
'fuzzy' and it is not (at least in origin) a term the
medical profession used to describe the operation.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
web site
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________From: p.lincoln@att.net
Subject: Re: [histsex] your mail
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:41:44 +0000
Hi Angela: My area of "expertise" is associated with
gender issues and sexuality as it exists in literature,
past and present. The Hist.sx forum provides references,
texts... that are of value to me ; but, I'm not at all
knowledgeable enough to help with this type of survey.
Consider a women's studies list? Or perhaps the
psychology of partial birth abortion?
Sorry
P.A.L.
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality - http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
>
> I am a student from Florida International University
> and I have to make a research about partial birth
> abortion. I will appreciate any information you can
> reach about it.
>
> Angela
___________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:39:05 -0700 (MST)
From: Tim Hodgdon <Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu>
Subject: [histsex] X-Post H-Asia:The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on Japan's
Military (fwd)
My apologies for any duplication of coverage.
Tim Hodgdon
Ph.D. candidate
Department of History
Arizona State University
Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:01:21 -0500
From: Paula C. Barnes <drbarnes@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: H-NET List for Women's History <H-WOMEN@H-NET.MSU.EDU>
To: H-WOMEN@H-NET.MSU.EDU
Subject: X-Post H-Asia:The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on
Japan's Military
Norman G. Owen "If you want to make God laugh, tell her your plans."
ngowen@hku.hk Anne Lamott, _Bird by Bird_
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:08:22 -0400
From: Steven Leibo <leibo@nycap.rr.com>
Reply-To: H-Net list for Asian History and Culture <H-ASIA@H-NET.MSU.EDU>
To: H-ASIA@H-NET.MSU.EDU
Subject: H-ASIA: The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on Japan's
Military
H-ASIA
**********************************************
Colleagues: I am sending the following post out again because I have reason
to believe that it got garbled when I sent it out a few days ago.
Leibo
**********************************************************
From: mark selden <ms44@cornell.edu>
Subject: confusion?
The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on Japan's Military
Sexual Slavery 2000 will convene in Tokyo on December 7-12.
This is a long post, appropriate, I believe, to the importance of the
issues.
The conference is the culmination of more than a decade of efforts by
the Asian victims of Japan's wartime sexual slavery system (the
"Comfort Women") with the support of Asian feminists and human rights
activists to tell their story and seek justice, and by international
movements centered on the United Nations Human Rights Commission to
recognize their grievances. It represents an extraordinary effort by
Asian women's movements to overcome barriers of language, the Cold
War legacy, and "national interest" to pose issues not only of
Japan's military sexual slavery but of contemporary military violence
against women internationally.
The Japanese government, after decades of denying responsibility for
the treatment of the comfort women, was forced by public testimony of
the comfort women to obliquely recognize its responsibility through
supporting the establishment of a 'private' fund to compensate
comfort women victims, while publicly evading its responsibilities
for apology and restitution. At present nine cases filed by former
comfort women pending in Japanese courts.
I am forwarding information about the conference from the organizers,
including a briefing on the issues and information about registration
and international support. Further information about participation
and donations to support the event is available from:
vaww-net-japan@jca.apc.org
mark selden
Binghamton and Cornell Universities
ms44@cornell.edu
A PRIMER ON THE WOMEN's INTERNATIONAL WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL
and Public Hearing on Current War Crimes
Tokyo, Japan
December 8 - 12, 2000
The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal on Japan's Military
Sexual Slavery
The WOMEN'S INTERNATIONAL WAR-CRIMES TRIBUNAL ON JAPAN'S
MILITARY SEXUAL SLAVERY (or the Tokyo Tribunal) is a people's
tribunal organized by Asian women and human rights organizations and
supported by the international NGOs, to hear the cases of sexual
slavery and other crimes involving sexual violence committed against
the women by Japan. Historically, hundreds of thousands of young
women in the Asia Pacific region were raped or either deceived or
abducted to become comfort women for the Japanese Imperial Army
during the Second World War. The women were held prisoners for
periods ranging from one week to more than four years.
After the Second World War, sexual violence committed by the
Japanese Imperial Army was hardly prosecuted by the International
Military Tribunal for the Far East (The Far East Tribunal) as set-up
by the Allied Forces. An exception was the Batavia (Indonesia) Trial
where the case of 35 Dutch women who had been victimized in
Indonesia, brought their case against 12 Japanese Army officers at
the Batavia court. Charges were made on the grounds of having
committed war crimes and in defiance of the laws and customs of war,
in the Dutch East Indies in 1944. One of the accused was condemned
to death and others were sentenced to imprisonment ranging from two
to 15 years. That was the only trial in history that gave justice to
the comfort women. Today most of the comfort women are still denied
such justice.
At present, the Japanese government continues to deny any
legal responsibility for the war crimes and crimes against humanity
committed against the women during the Second World War. Currently
there are 8 court cases filed by comfort women of various countries
such as South Korea, China, North Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines
at the Tokyo and other District Courts, including the High Court, yet
a number of this cases have been denied by the District Court,
especially the case of the Filipino and Dutch comfort women.
The Women's International War Crimes Tribunal will take place
in Tokyo, Japan on December 8-12, 2000. The venue of the Tribunal
will be at the: Kudan Kaikan, 1-6-5 Kudan-minami, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo,
Japan 102-0074, Telephone No. 03-3261-5521.
The participating victimized countries:
There were many countries victimized by the war of aggression and
colonization waged by Japan in the Asia Pacific region during the
1930s to the 1940s. They crossed the continent from the Pacific to
East and Southeast Asia. Today the victimized countries participating
in the Tokyo Tribunal includes South & North Korea, China, Taiwan,
Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Guam, Burma, among others.
Historical records showed that Japanese Imperial Army systematically
set up comfort stations and facilities for sexual slavery, in all the
occupied and colonized countries, coerced and abducted women to
become sex slaves for the purpose of providing sexual gratification
to the officers and soldiers of the Imperial Army.
It was in 1991 when Kim Hak Soon, the first Korean comfort woman
came out to tell her story publicly. Soon after, former comfort women
from other countries - North Korea, Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan,
China, Malaysia, and the Dutch women who were held captive in
Indonesia - broke their fifty years of silence to tell their stories.
Today around 600 former comfort women from the victimized countries
have come out to tell their stories.
And a new page of history has been written.
Women's organizations, non-government organizations and civil society
took on the advocacy to demand justice for the former comfort women
and seek legal recognition of rape and sexual slavery as war crime,
crimes against humanity and genocide. The government of Taiwan, South
Korea, North Korea, the Philippines and China had on separate
occasions demanded from the Japan government to answer for their
wartime responsibility. Because of the comfort women's actions,
having brought their cases to court, they had challenged state
accountability to the war crimes perpetrated against them. And they
have inspired numerous other women victims of current war crimes in
different parts of the world.
No other movement has ever brought to the attention of the
international community the magnitude of gross human rights
violations perpetrated against the women fifty years ago, such as
that of the comfort women of Asia.
No other human rights movement has demanded an end to the cycle of
impunity of wartime sexual violence against women, such as that of
the comfort women.
No other human rights movement has brought together peoples from
different ideological, political, and social movements to unite on
common grounds - such as the impact of these movements to unite and
reconcile South and North Korea.
No other movement has demanded accountability from a perpetrator
country for the grave breaches of human rights violations done to
women that happened fifty years ago such as that of the comfort women.
No other movement has decided to look at the war crimes and crimes
against humanity violations under international law and humanitarian
law on the issue of sexual slavery, sexual violence such as that of
the comfort women.
The Organizers of the Tribunal
The victimized countries are represented by the following organizations:
. North Korea Committee on Measures for Compensation to the Former
Comfort Women for Japanese Army and Pacific War Victims (COCOPA)
. South Korea Korean Council for the Women Drafted for Military
Sexual Slavery by Japan
. China Shanghai Research Center on Comfort Woman
. Taiwan Taipei Women's Rescue Foundation
. Philippines Asian Centre for Women's Human Rights (ASCENT)
. Indonesia Indonesian Women's Coalition
. Malaysia. Support Network for Malaysian Comfort Women
. Netherlands Support Network for Dutch Comfort Women
. Burma Support Network for Burmese Comfort Women
Supporting the initiatives of the victimized countries from Japan is
the Violence Against Women in War-Network Japan. (VAWW-NET Japan)
These organizations comprise the members of the International
Organizing Committee (IOC) and the Convenors are:
. Ms. Yun Chung Ok of the Korean Council,
. Ms. Yayori Matsui of VAWW-NET Japan
. Ms. Indai Sajor of ASCENT
An International Advisory Committee has also been set up to provide
support and advise to the organizers. These are composed of
internationally known human rights advocates, feminists, in the area
of peace and development. These are:
. Edna Aquino, Amnesty International
. Ariane Brunet, International Center for Human Rights and Democratic
Development
. Charlotte Bunch, Center for Women's Global Leadership
. Florence Butegwa, Associates for Change
. Eugenia Piza Lopez, International Alert
. Alda Facio, ILANUD
. Marieme Helie Lucas, Women Living Under Muslim Laws
. Lepa Mladjenovic, Autonomous Women's Center Against Sexual Violence
. Vahida Nainar, Women's Caucus for Gender Justice
. Julie Shaw, Urgent Action Fund
. Vivian Stromberg, MADRE
. Felicity Hill, Women's International League for Peace and Freedom
. Regan Ralph, Human Rights Watch
The objectives of the Tokyo Tribunal
1. To receive from each country evidence highlighting the grave
nature of the crimes committed against the comfort women and to
clarify the consequent responsibility of the Japanese Government and
its military;
2. To have a clear analysis of the gendered nature of the crimes and
to established a gender-sensitive approach to the issues of war
crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide;
3. To involve the international community in shedding light about the
nature of the crimes committed against the comfort women of Asia and
to identify steps to be taken by the Japanese Government;
4. To create an international movement supporting women's issues on
violence against women under war and armed conflict situations; and
5. To end impunity of wartime sexual violence against women and to
prevent such crimes from happening in the future.
Background and Preparation for the Tokyo Tribunal
As the millennium comes to an end, it is but proper to give
the women survivors who are all in their advanced age a sense of what
constitutes justice. Discussion of organizing the International
Women's War Crimes Tribunal started in April 1998, when members of
the VAWW-NET International (Violence against Women in War Network)
met in Geneva to attend the session of the UN Commission on Human
Rights. Since then several meetings were held to flesh out the idea
of holding the Tokyo Tribunal among the victimized. The VAWW-NET
Japan, the Korean Council and ASCENT-Philippines were identified as
convenors of the Tribunal, with all the other participating countries
to form the International Organizing Committee (IOC). An
International Advisory Committee (IAC) was likewise created composed
of internationally known women's human rights activists, lawyers, and
feminists to provide support and advise to the IOC.
In these meetings, it was agreed that the main theme of the Tribunal
is to define the individual criminal responsibility and
accountability of the Japanese government under international law and
humanitarian law for its war crimes and crimes against humanity.
Succeeding meetings have been held whenever there is a possibility
for the members of the Organizing Committee to be together in other
international conferences or gatherings to discuss about the charter,
the rules and procedures of evidences, the country research and
prosecution teams, the judges, chief prosecutors and experts to be
invited.
The first prosecutors meeting was held in Manila last July 29-31,
2000 attended by 40 participants from the victimized countries and
Japan including observers. The IOC members met together with the
country prosecutors and chief prosecutors for the first time to
discuss the legal framework for the indictment and to approve the
Charter. Long discussions on the elements of war crimes, framework
of the indictments, rules of procedures and evidence and structure of
the country indictments were thoroughly discussed.
Another meeting was held in September 15-18, 2000 in Taipei. The
participating countries presented their indictments and finalized all
the necessary requirements for the holding of the Tribunal.
Meanwhile, teams of prosecutors from the victimized countries and
Japan composed of respected lawyers and academicians are working on
the indictment, doing research, gathering evidences, studying the
charter, and meeting the former comfort women.
Is redress possible in the Tokyo Tribunal?
The organizers are convinced that redress, for women
victimized in time of wars and conflict situations, from the past to
the present, is possible in the light of the principles of
international law, humanitarian law, human conscience, humanity and
gender justice.
The Tribunal has no real power to enforce its
judgement, but as a people's and women's initiative, it nonetheless
carries the moral authority to demand their wide acceptance and
enforcement of the judgement by the international community and civil
society and pave the way for law reforms in national governments.
The people involved in the Tokyo Tribunal
Other than the convenors and members of the International
Organizing Committee, there is a global campaign among women and men
to support and endorse the Tokyo Tribunal. Local, national, regional
and international campaigns are being initiated not only by the
victimized countries but by human rights and peace institutions,
networks working for humanitarian assistance and women's
organizations.
Partial listings of Tribunal Members:
The Judges:
Gabrielle Kirk McDonald, USA (former President of the Yugoslavia War
Crimes Tribunal)
Pierre Sane,Senegal ( Secretary General of Amnesty international)
Vitit Muntarbhorn, Thailand (former UN Rapporteur on the sale of the
children, child prostitution, and child pornography)
Carmen Maria Argibay, Argentina (President of the International
Women's Association of Judges)
Christine Chinkin, United Kingdom (Expert on Gender and International Law)
(Other eminent persons are still being contacted)
The Legal Advisers:
Rhonda Copellon, (Professor of Law, City University of New York)
Theo Van Boven, (Professor of law, Maastricht University, the Netherlands)
Kelly Dawn Askin, (Professor of law, Washington University)
The Chief Prosecutors:
Patricia Viseur-Sellers, Legal Adviser for Gender-Related Crimes in
the Office of the Prosecutor for the International Criminal Tribunal
for the former Yugoslavia, and until recently the Rwanda Tribunal;
Ustinia Dolgopol - Professor of Law, Flinders University, Australia
Hina Jilani - Lawyer for the Supreme Court of Pakistan
The Experts:
Herbert P. Bix -Emperor Hirohito
Theo Van Boven -right to reparation
Gay McDougall - racism and gender
Yoshiaki Yoshimi - Japanese Imperial Army
Fritz Kalshoven - state responsibility
(others are still being contacted)
The Country Prosecutors:
For North Korea
Hwang Ho Nam, Secretary General, COCOPA
Jong Nam Yong, lawyer, Executive Member, COCOPA
For China
Mr. Zhou Hong-jun, Law Professor & Deputy Chief of the International
Economic Law Institute of East China University of Politics and Law
Mr. Su Zhi Liang, History Department, Shanghai Teachers University
For South Korea
Dr. Kim, Myung-gi, Chief Prosecutor, Myunggi University, Professor,
International Law)
Dr. Cho Si Hyun, Prosecutor, Professor of Law, Sungsin University
Law School, International Law
Dr. Kim Chang Rok, Prosecutor,, Pusan University of Law, History of Japan
Law
Mr. Chang Wan-Ick, Prosecutor, Lawyer, ANSAN
Mr. Park Won-soon, Prosecutor, Lawyer, General Secretary, Peoples
Solidarity for Participatory Democracy
Ms. Kang Jeong-sook, Prosecutor, Research staff, Korean Institute of
Jungshindae, Women history)
Dr. Ha Jong-moon, Prosecutor, Professor of Hanshin University
Dr. Yang Hyun-ah, Lecturer at Seoul University
For Taiwan
Mr. Liao Ying-Chih, lawyer, International Law
Ms. Lu Chia Hsiang, Taipei Women's Rescue Foundation
Mr. Chuang Kuo-Ming (Henry), lawyer, international law
For Philippines
Dr. Merlin Magallona, Professor of Law, College of Law, University of
the Philippines
Atty. Sedfrey Candelaria, Asst. Dean, Ateneo University College of Law
Dr. Purificacion Quisumbing, Chairperson Philippine Judicial
Academy, Supreme Court of the Philippines
Prof. Ricardo Jose, Professor of History, University of the Philippines,
Atty. Evalyn Ursua, Professor of Law, University of the Philippines
Ms. Aurora Javate de Dios, Dean, Miriam College
For Indonesia
Nursyahbhani Katjasungkana, lawyer and Secretary General of
Indonesian Women Coalition for Justice and Democracy
Antarini Ama , lawyer of the Indonesian Women's Coalition for Justice
and Democracy
Asnifriyanti Damanik - Legal Aid Indonesia Women Association for Justice
Paulus R. Mahulette - Lawyer, LBH Jakarta (Jakarta Legal
Aid Institute)
For Japan
Atty. Kazuko Kawaguchi, Chief Lawyer, VAWW-NET Japan
Atty. Yuichi Yokota, Lawyer, VAWW-Net Japan
Atty. Yasushi Higashizawa, Lawyer, VAWW-Net Japan
Professor Koki Abe
Professor Shin Hae Bong
For the Netherlands
Atty. Henry Grant, (Professor of Law & former Prosecutor ICTY)
The Public Hearing on Current War Crimes
A one-day public hearing is being organized to hear the
testimonies of the victims from on-going war and conflict around the
world, to demonstrate that the crimes against the former 'comfort
women' is still happening to women today. The public hearing will
be comprised of testimonies of victims and survivors of wars and
conflicts in different regions of the globe such as Guatemala,
Colombia, Chiapas, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Congo, Nigeria, Rwanda,
Somalia, Sudan, Kosovo, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Cambodia, Vietnam,
Burma, East Timor, Afghanistan, Algeria and Puerto Rico.
The hearing will not only present testimonies of women who
had been victimized by war but also provide a forum simultaneously to
talk about the initiatives of women and men in other countries to
rise and demand justice and peace in their communities. The public
hearing will usher the continuing work of women and men for justice,
peace and end to impunity.
The series of consultative meetings among the women's and human
rights groups, peace networks and law reform advocates. The four
themes that were eventually identified at this meetings represent the
source or the root cause of wars/conflicts and human rights
violations.
The themes identified are:
. Conflicts/violations resulting from extremism. Many countries are
in situations of war, conflict and unrest as a result of rise of the
power and stronghold of states, groups and organizations that profess
extreme ideologies based on nationalism, ethnicity, religion, race,
marginalization, majoritarianism, which take violent forms and
terrorizes the communities.
. Conflicts/violations resulting from militarism: Aggression,
invasion, state repression, military or other kinds of occupation and
foreign policy of powerful countries are the source of conflicts in
many countries around the world today. In the process, fundamental
rights of peoples, particularly women are violated.
. Resource-based conflicts/violations: Access and dispute over
resources have been the root cause of wars and conflicts. Disputes
over land, natural resources, borders, territories, water, natural
resources have intensified in many countries and their communities.
. Violations during post-conflict and the lasting impacts in the
event of non-resolution of conflicts on peace and reconstruction:
Women are often ignored or marginalized during the peace process and
in the subsequent efforts of reconstruction and rehabilitation. Many
forms of violence against women take place as accountability often
are not ensured during this phase.
The public hearing will be held on December 11, after the
third day of the Tokyo Tribunal proceedings and followed the next
day by the Tokyo Tribunal judgement. The Women's Caucus for Gender
Justice for the ICC in New York is the Secretariat for the public
hearing.
Women's Caucus for Gender Justice, PO Box 3541 Grand Central Post
Office, New York,
NY 10163,USA Tel.1-212-697-7741 & Fax. 1-212-949-7996 Email
<iccwomen@igc.org>
Groups supporting the Tribunal
Various organizations and individuals have already endorsed and
expressed their support for the Tribunal. UN Special Rapporteurs
will be invited to attend the proceedings. In particular, UN SR
Rhadhika Coomarswamy will specifically attend the Public Hearing on
Current war Crimes to hear the cases of women for her next report at
the UN Commission on Human Rights in March 2001. Following are the
initial list of these organizations:
NGO Coalition to the International Criminal Court (CICC); Amnesty
International (AI); CIDA-SEAGEP; Shaler Adams Foundation;
Akina-Mama-Wa Africa; Asian and Pacific Development Center (APDC);
International Women's Human Rights Law Clinic (CUNY- NY); ISIS-WICCE;
ISIS-Manila; International Center for Human Rights and Democratic
Development (ICHRDD); Women Living Under Muslim Laws (WLUML); Women's
International League for Peace and Freedom (WILPF); Equality Now;
International Alert; Human Rights Watch; Urgent Action Fund; MADRE;
Autonomous Women's Center Against Sexual Violence; Coalition Against
Trafficking in Women (CATW); Asia Pacific Forum on Women Law and
Development (APWLD); Global Alliance Against Trafficking in Women
(GAATW); Australian National Committee of Refugee Women; INFORM, Sri
Lanka; AGHS Legal Aid Cell, Pakistan; Asian and Pacific Development
Center (APDC); Revolutionary Association of the Women of
Afghanistan; Women's Caucus for Gender Justice - ICC and more.
The Convenors of the Tribunal
. Yayori Matsui
VAWW-NET Japan
2-10-10 Shiomi, Koto-ku, 135-8685, Japan
Tel/Fax: (813) 5337-4088
Email: vawwjs@jca.apc.org
URL: http://www.jca.apc.org/vaww-net-japan
. Yun Chung Ok
The Korean Council for the Women Drafted for
Military Sexual Slavery by Japan
3F, CISUD Bldg., #35 Chungieongro 2 Ga
Seodaemun Gu, Seoul, Korea
Tel: (822) 365-4016 & Fax: (822) 365-4017
. Indai Sajor
Asian Centre for Women's Human Rights (ASCENT)
Suite 306 MJB Bldg., 220 Tomas Morato Ave.,
Quezon City, Philippines
Tel: (632) 926-4386 or 410-1512
Fax: (632) 928-4973
Email: ascent@csi.com.ph
URL:http://www.vawwnet.org
The Conference Program and Expressions of Support
The "Comfort women" who were the victims of sexual violence by the
Japanese Imperial Army before and during World War II, broke their
silence in the early 1990's and have demanded redress and justice.
The Japanese government continues to deny legal responsibility and
undermine the dignity of the women.
Therefore, women's groups and individuals across the Asia Pacific
region have come together to organize a Women's Tribunal in order to
respond to the cries of aging survivors. From the women's
perspective, justice and dignity will never be realized until
perpetrators of the crimes are prosecuted and there is a full
acceptance of responsibility by the Japanese government. The
tribunal is one way of ensuring a 21st century free of violence
against women.
The judges and prosecutors for the Tribunal are leading experts in
the field of human rights and international law.
On the fourth day of the proceedings there will be an International
Public Hearing on Violence Against Women which will focus on current
armed conflicts. Participants in this Public Hearing include women
fromÅ@Afghanistan, East Timor, Cambodia, the former Yugoslavia,
Algeria, Congo, Rwanda, Guatemala, and other areas.
Schedule
Date & Time Events
Dec. 7 (Thu) Opening Ceremony; 18:30-20:30
Dec. 8 (Fri) Day 1 of the Tribunal; 9:30-17:00
Opening remarks, Reading indictment by Prosecutors, Defense Counsel,
Japan's responsibility, Countries' presentation by South & North Korea
18:30-20:30 Welcome receptions
Dec. 9 (Sat) Day 2 of the Tribunal; 9:30-17:00
Country's presentation by Taiwan, China, Philippines, and Malaysia,
and Experts' testimonies
18:30-20:30 Video showing
Dec. 10 (Sun) Day 3 of the Tribunal; 9:30-17:00
Countries' presentation by Indonesia, East Timor, Netherlands, and,
Japan, Experts' testimonies, Perpetrators' testimonies, Defense
Counsel, and Closing comments
18:30-20:30 Cultural Night
Dec. 11 (Mon) International Public Hearing on Current Armed
Conflicts and Women
9:00-18:00 Testimonies by women from 12 areas of current and
post conflicts
Dec. 12 (Tue) Day 4 of the Tribunal; 9:30-17:00
Judgments and comments by all judges, press conference, and demonstration
Countries' presentation includes (1) prosecutor's indictment, (2)
survivors' testimonies, and (3) explanation of evidence.
Participants at the Tribunal and the Public Hearing
Survivors from victimized areas; Judges; Chief prosecutors & Country
prosecutors; Expert witnesses on trauma, reparations, and
discrimination based on gender and race; Legal advisors; Respected
members of the International Community; and Media
Venue
Kudan Kaikan
1-6-5 Kudanminami, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo 1020074 Japan
Phone 03 3261 5521
Access
>From Narita (Tokyo) International Airport
1. Take a limousine bus from Narita airport to Tokyo City Air Terminal
(TCAT).
2. Take a subway (HANZOMON line) and get off at KUDAN-SHITA station.
3. Exit from the EXIT #4 at the station and it takes about 1-minute
walk from the station.
Accommodation
We have a list of hotels near the venue. If you need a list, please
check the box on the registration form.
Registration procedures: contact the organizers
Those who want to apply from 6 victim countries are requested to
contact the following organizations of each country.
Country Group/Representative Address Tel/Fax/Email
South Korea The Korean Council for the Women Drafted for Military
Sexual Slavery by Japan
Ms. Yun Chung-Ok 3/F, CISJD Bldg., #35
Chungieongro 2 Ga
Seodaemun Gu, Seoul, Korea Tel +82-2-365-4016
Fax +82-2-365-4017
Email: jdh@peacenet.or.kr
North Korea Committee on Measures for Compensation to the Former
"Comfort Women for Japanese Army" and Pacific War Victims
Mr. Hwang Ho Nam Ryonhwa-1, Central District, Pyongyang, DPR
of Korea Tel +850-2-18222 EXT: 8048
Fax +850-2-3814644
China Shanghai Teachers University Department of Sociology & History
Prof. Su Zhi Liang 100 Guilin Road,
Dept. of History, STU
Shanghai 200234, China Tel: 64322819
Fax: 64361873
Email: Su@guomai.sh.cn
Taiwan, R.O.C. Taipei Women's Rescue Foundation
Mr. Henry K.M. Chuang 7F-1, No. 321, Sec 1,
Fuh Sing S. Rd.,
Taipei, Taiwan, R.O.C. Tel: 02-2700-9595
Fax: 02-2704-4854
Email: twr95@ms4.hinet.net
Philippines Asian Centre for Women's Human Rights (ASCENT)
Ms. Indai L. Sajor Suite 306, MJB Bldg.,
220 Tomas Morato Ave.,
Quezon City, Philippines Tel: +63-2-926-4386
FAX +63-2-928-4973
Email: ascent@csi.com.ph
Indonesia Nursyahbani Katjasungkana Jl. Raya Tengah nomor 16,
Kramatjati, Jakarta 13540,
Indonesia Tel/Fax +62-21-87797289
Email: apiknet@centrin.net.id
Donations
Those unable to attend but who would like to support the Tribunal can
make a donation to VAWW-NET Japan.
If you have questions, please feel free to ask VAWW-NET Japan.
VAWW-NET Japan
2-10-10 Shiomi, Koto-ku, Tokyo 135-8585, Japan
Phone/FAX +81-3-5337-4088, E-mail: vaww-net-japan@jca.apc.org
URL: http://www.jca.apc.org/~vawwjs
===========================================
___________________________________________________________________From: ralfdose@t-online.de (Ralf Dose)
To: "Histsex:For historians of sexuality" <histsex@listbot.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:12:59 +0100
Dear Ivan,
there is simple answer to your question: The congress Ellis could
not attend in 1926 was held in Berlin, not in London, and was
organized by Moll. There is a 5-volume congress report in German,
Marcuse, Max (Hrsg.): Verhandlungen des 1. Internationalen
Kongresses für Sexualforschung. Berlin, vom 10.-16. Oktober
1926. 5 Bde. Berlin/Köln (A. Marcus & E. Weber's Verlag) 1928.
1. Experimentalforschung und Biologie
2. Phsysiologie Pahtologie und Therapie
3. Psychologie, Pädagogik, Ethik, Ästhetik, Religion
4. Demographie und Statistik, Sozial- und Rassenhygiene
5. Straf- und Zivilrecht, Strafprozeß und Strafvollzug, Soziologie,
Ethnologie und Folklore
There were extended quarrels about this congress in the
sexologist's community of the 1920's: Moll excluded Hirschfeld
from this congress, and you will find a heated debate about this in
German sexological journals and in Berlin the newspapers of 1926.
Hirschfeld, though not a participant of the congress himself, invited
the congress members to visit his Institute while in Berlin, and
many of them did, to the dismay of Moll. Dora Russell gives a short
account of this event in her memories "The Tamarisk Tree."
There was a second international congress organized by Moll and
his crowd in 1930, which took place in London, and was clearly
planned to disturb Hirschfeld's WLSR circles. E.g. when Haire tried
to get Wiesner, of Edinburgh, as a supporter for the London WLSR
congress, he had to find out that Moll already had engaged
Wiesner for his plans. And from the Haire letters to Dora Russell I
know that he was alarmed about rumors spread in England
(allegedly by Moll) that the 1929 WLSR congress would be a
meeting of homosexuals.
Of course, you won't find a word about theses quarrels in the
English congress report:
Greenwood, A.W. (ed.): Proceedings of the Second International
Congress for Sex Research, London 1930. Edinburgh, London
(Oliver and Boyd) 1931.
The fight between Moll and Hirschfeld is a long and sad story. It
started during the Eulenburg affair (if not earlier) and did not end
before Hirschfeld died.
Let me know if you need more details.
Ralf
Ralf Dose M.A.
Magnus-Hirschfeld-Gesellschaft e.V.
Forschungsstelle zur Geschichte der Sexualwissenschaft
Chodowieckistr. 41, D-10405 Berlin
http://www.in-berlin.de/user/hirschfeld
ralfdose@magnus.in-berlin.de office e-mail
x49-30-441 39 73 office phone/fax
ralfdose@t-online.de home e-mail
x49-30-215 94 74 home phone
___________________________________________________________________From: "docx2" <docx2@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] help? Haire and Ellis
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:55:29 -0700
----- Original Message -----
From: Ralf Dose <ralfdose@t-online.de>
To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality <histsex@listbot.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 5:12 PM
Subject: [histsex] help? Haire and Ellis
The fight between Moll and Hirschfeld is a long and sad story. It
started during the Eulenburg affair (if not earlier) and did not end
before Hirschfeld died.
Let me know if you need more details.
Ralf
Dear Ralf,
I would like more details. I do not speak (or read) German, so this
whole era is rather confusing for me.
Take care,
Charles Moser
P.S. Does anyone have a reference for the story that Leopold von
Sacher-Masoch wrote Krafft-Ebing an angry letter for naming a psychiatric
entity for him (actually his maternal grand-father who was a public health
physician in Vienna)?
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: [histsex] New Member
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:26:18 -0600
Hello. My name is Jeff-todd Jencks. I am primarily interested in
discussions about sexual ethics, the psychology of sex and the psychological
history of sex. I am also interested in what I call Near Sex. Near Sex
means anything that can be debated as to whether it is sex or not. For
example, nudity is a Near Sex topic because nudists claim that they can
enjoy nudity that is not sexual while certain religions claim that nudity is
inherently sexual. Whenever some people call it sex while others say it's
not sex than it's a Near Sex topic. Other Near Sex topics include
affection, sex therapy, and certain clothing styles.
I think the main reason that I'm interested in Near Sex is because I grew up
with intense feelings of body shame. My feelings were so severe that I
always wore long sleeve shirts and long pants no matter how hot it was and I
even contemplated wearing gloves and a hood so that no flesh could be
visible. I felt ashamed everytime I went to the bathroom or took a shower
because the body was sinful.
Since then, I have relaxed a lot and I'm not plagued by feelings of shame.
But I still have a desire to understand how I or anyone else could have
developed such intense feelings of body shame in the first place and how a
healthier set of sexual ethics might be taught so that future generations
aren't inflicted with the same body shame I had to overcome.
My email address is jencks4@home.com
My homepage is http://bejjinks.tripod.com
I love discussion. Thank you.
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubert" <hubert.gieschen@users.breworld.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] New Member
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:50:29 +0100
Thank God for that message. I amost felt like I was the only one on the =
list not writing for a phd and who joined up for more pragmatic reasons =
(see my intro)
Hubert
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jencks=20
To: histsex@listbot.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:26 PM
Subject: [histsex] New Member
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 06:09:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jennifer Ball <jenniferlball@excite.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] New Member
This an introduction and a comment on the last email I received.
My name is Jennier L Ball and I am working on my PhD at Purdue University,
West Lafayette, IN. My diss covers contraception in the 1940s and 1950s in
Connecticut.
While I write for the pragmatic reason of fulfilling PhD requirments, my
research is a labor of love. I'm personally fascinated and invested in the
fragmentation of identity through sexuality. I believe most scholars find
their work personally and professionally engaging. That is why it is
refreshing to have a committed, engaged, respectful and informed group with
whom to discuss these issues.
In short, you are among colleagues whether you're writing a diss or not.
Jen
jlball@expert.cc.purdue.edu
On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:50:29 +0100, Histsex:For historians of sexuality
wrote:
Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
Thank God for that message. I amost felt like I was the only one on the
list not writing for a phd and who joined up for more pragmatic reasons (see
my intro)
Hubert
----- Original Message -----
From: Jencks
To: histsex@listbot.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:26 PM
Subject: [histsex] New Member
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] New Member
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:09:41 -0600
I don't know how to find the intro referred to here. It's probably in =
the archives and I=20
don't know how to find the archives yet.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] New Member
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:58:54 +0100
The archives can be accessed via the list homepage, which gets put at =
the top of all messages so I won't repeat it here, however, as I have =
had occasion to remark before, they are not threaded but simply in =
reverse chronological order, with the most recent at the top, and also =
don't indicate writer of messages.
Does anyone know of any other free e-list services which don't involve a =
lot of advertising being tagged on to messages and other disadvantages? =
but do allow threading of archives and other desirables?
Thanks
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] List homepage/archives
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:50:10 +0100
Ooops - I've just noticed that this link only went to the homepage for =
my site - I've just amended it so that it should go to the Histsex =
homepage.
Sorry
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: JNKATZ1@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:51:58 EDT
Subject: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Since the Bill and Monica Scandal of 1999 the new member should include in
"Near Sex" oral-genital contacts, the subject of a public, historic, and
hilarious national debate about what constitutes sex.
___________________________________________________________________From:
"Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Review of interest
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:22:57 +0100
Will Roscoe. Changing Ones: Third and Fourth Genders In Native America. =
New York: St. Martin's Press, 1998. viii + 320 pp. Illustrations, =
tables, glossary, tribal index of alternative gender roles and =
sexuality, notes, bibliography of native gay and lesbianliterature, =
bibliography, index . $16.95 (paper), ISBN 0-312-22479-6. Reviewed by =
Donna M. Dean, Ph. D., Independent Scholar.
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=3D14884971731727
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Hubert" <hubert.gieschen@users.breworld.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] New Member
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:31:22 +0100
Just in case, I hope nobody felt offended by my remarks. But prior to =
joining I had assumed that a very broad scientific interest would be =
served. I will probably be proved right.
To avoid long searches and briefly, I have an MA (in Welsh History!) and =
my interest in the history of sex comes from an interest in the (almost =
London, England specific) phenomina of pubs (not clubs) where striptease =
is performed and its social history. I am still a subscriber to a =
discussion group on this particualar issue at london_strip@egroups.com =
(in response to Lesley you probably will find that there are far too =
many adverts on egroups.com. Otherwise egroups lets you do whatever you =
want), but there is no real interest in the scientific aspect of the =
matter.
As it happened only tonight I was present when a film crew for Britain's =
Channel Four TV was filming on location.
To finish it off, I also have an amateur interest in erotic art on =
medieval churches.
Hubert
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:45:28 +0100
Dear Mr Jencks,
I am all for the most extreme forms of social constructivism, especially of
humans and human relations. But I am stuck: can you give me an example of
penis/vagina contact which is not sexual for at least one of the parties, or
intended to be, at some level? I would of course like to exclude sexual
violence, although it may to fall under sexual for at least one party.
Cheerio, Ivan
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: Jencks [mailto:jencks4@home.com]
Sent: 20 October 2000 05:42
To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/listinf.htm
Yes, oral genital contact would fall under the heading Near Sex. The truth
is, technically everything falls under the heading of Near Sex because there
are always some people who are going to call everything sexual and some
people who would deny penis vagina contact as sexual. So before we get off
into extremes, the point of the question is to narrow the gray area, to
define sex well enough that we eventually eliminate all subjects from
falling under the heading Near Sex.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:41:50 -0600
Yes, oral genital contact would fall under the heading Near Sex. The truth
is, technically everything falls under the heading of Near Sex because there
are always some people who are going to call everything sexual and some
people who would deny penis vagina contact as sexual. So before we get off
into extremes, the point of the question is to narrow the gray area, to
define sex well enough that we eventually eliminate all subjects from
falling under the heading Near Sex.
___________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 07:36:13 -0500
From: Dar Weyenberg <dweyenbe@students.wisc.edu>
Subject: RE: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Hello jencks and all
I think one of the things that the national "debates" relating to what
counts as sex (as subsequently what does not) was how conceptually the
concept discursively scaffolded with different layers of meaning that
function to differienate, divide and normalize. It seems to me that that
through the practice of "narrowing the grey area",-which has the effect of
loading up on tje what "is" sex pole-which also has the effect of saying
what "ought" to be. This linking of the "is" and the "ought" is problematic.
dar
___________________________________________________________________From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Fw: call for papers
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:45:29 +0100
Some of you may already have seen this!
From: Journal of the History of Sexuality <jhs@sfsu.edu>
Date: 20 October 2000 20:23
Subject: call for papers
JHS: Call for Papers
(pls. forward)
Since the end of World War II, human sexuality has become a major =
consideration in political life throughout the globe. Communities and =
states on virtually every continent have struggled to control =
reproduction, redefine marriage, address sexual rights, and revise the =
boundaries of legitimate sexual expression and behavior. Contraception, =
abortion, consensual sex, homosexuality, divorce, pornography, =
prostitution, and sexually transmitted diseases are the most prominent =
among the myriad issues that have challenged legislators and political =
processes and transformed more than a few political careers.
The Journal of the History of Sexuality invites scholars interested in =
these or related subjects to submit articles for a special issue on =
"Sexuality and Politics since 1945." The editors welcome historical =
studies that address one or more of these issues in a single region as =
well as studies that are comparative.
The deadline for submission of completed articles is October 15, 2001. =
Earlier submissions are encouraged. Address completed manuscripts to: =
Barbara Loomis, History Department, San Francisco State University, San =
Francisco, CA 94132.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Conference Announcement and CFP
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:06:33 +0100
The Fourth European Social Science History Conference will take place in =
The Hague, The Netherlands, 27 Feb-2 Mar 2002
The Conference website is at http://www.iisg.nl/esshc with further =
details, on-line pre-registration form, etc.
The conference is organised in thematic strands, one of which is =
Sexuality.
As co-chair of the Sexuality strand, I am looking for either complete =
panels (2-3 speakers, commentator, and chair), or individual papers.
At the previous conference, last April in Amsterdam, we had a very good =
and lively set of panels in spite of the unsympathetic building and the =
defects in location, shape and size of the room to which our sessions =
had been allocated.
Historians of sexuality are also like to find other sessions of interest =
in other strands.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"? :answer to Ivan
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:38:08 -0600
What I was referring to was that some people would lie and attempt to
convince that penis vagina contact is not sex. For example, a man may have
an affair and attempt to say that is wasn't an affair because they only had
intercourse.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] What is "Sex"? :answer to Ivan
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:30:15 +0100
Dear Jencks,
Isn't this confusing categories? If one is having an affair it does not
necesarily involve sex, but it is still an affair. And one can also have
sex with someone with whom one is not having an affair (just a casual night,
never to be seen again, for example). But I really cannot conceive of your
original proposition: that penile/vaginal contact can be considered
non-sexual.
As for lying: to whom are they lying? Their partner, themselves, each
other, the world? And what about other's interpretations: I cannot think of
many Freudians, for instance, buying the line that penile/vaginal contact is
not sexual. So, again, it is a problem of categories.
Cheerio, ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"? :answer to Ivan
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:53:29 +0100
). But I really cannot conceive of your
>original proposition: that penile/vaginal contact can be considered
>non-sexual.
I'd concur with Ivan's arguments on this - isn't a common rationale for such
divagations from a central relationship the plea that it was 'ONLY sex'
(i.e. detached from anything else like emotions or meaningful relationship)
rather than 'NOT sex'?
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Julie Cox" <jmcjls@earthlink.net>
Subject: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:26:13 -0700
Hi all
I've been diligently searching through the histsex archives--by no means
done--so it's possible the answers to my questions remain hidden for the
moment.
1. Can someone point me to Sexology Bibliographies? I'm interested most in
writings in English translation but I'm also looking for writings in French
and German.
2. As a side project I'm trying to determine the history of the dildo in
Ancient Egypt (as in did they really know of it). One version of the
Isis-Osiris myth definitely seems to suggest knowledge of a prosthetic
phallus. Citations very welcome.
3. Would Charcot be considered a sexologist? Which might be a more
general, "who would be considered a sexologist?"
Julie M. Cox
PhD student, Literature
UC Santa Cruz
jmcjls@earthlink.net
___________________________________________________________________From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Oscar Wilde Conference
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:46:05 +0100
This may already have been mentioned on the list, but I came across this =
information today:
The Importance of Being Misunderstood: Homage to Oscar Wilde - An
international conference on Oscar Wilde.
Bologna and Parma, Italy, 8th-11th November 2000
http://www.lingue.unibo.it/avvenimenti/internat.htm
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Reeder" <reeder@sirius.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:12:00 -0700
Dear Julie,
I have seen dildo like phalli made of stone and ivory in the Egyptian Museum
Cairo, but do not recall
any published material on them. For a good book on sexualities in Late Egypt
see:
Sex and Society in Graeco-Roman Egypt (Kegan Paul )by Dominic Montserrat.
You might be interested in my just published paper on the Tomb of the
Manicurists,
"Same-sex desire, conjugal constructs, and the tomb of Niankhkhnum and
Khnumhotep"
see:
World Archaeology (Routledge)
Volume 32 Number 2
Issue Oct 2000
193-208
http://www.catchword.co.uk/titles/routledg/00438243/v32n2/contp1-1.htm
Greg Reeder
reeder@sirius.com
http://www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:16:54 +0100
Dear Julie Cox,
A good place to start for sexology sources is Lucy Bland and Laura Doan,
eds, Sexology Uncensored, Chicago, 1998. If you want more, then Frank
Sulloway, Freud, Biologist of the Mind, Harvard, 1979 also has an excellent
bibliography f the original sources. And then of course, there are a lot of
sources in these sources, etc.
As for: 3. Would Charcot be considered a sexologist? Which might be a more
general, "who would be considered a sexologist?"
No Charcot would not, he was a neurologist who used hypnotism. He did write
a paper with Valentin Magnan on homosexuality which is interesting, however.
Sexologists of use to you might be Albert Moll or Havelock Ellis. It
depends what time frame, though, as Kinsey, for example, is a sexologist in
a very different field to Ellis. But if you are interested in J-M. Charcot,
then you probably do not have Kinsey in mind. Let me know if you want to
discuss this further.
Cheerio, Ivan
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:28:19 -0600
Can we get off of the penile vaginal sex subject. I never intended to say
anything about affairs or the likes but people kept asking me questions and
the conversation kept getting further and further off of my original point.
I will explain my original point in another e-mail titled Near Sex defined.
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] What is "Sex"?
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:29:18 GMT
> Can we get off of the penile vaginal sex subject.
..
> the conversation kept getting further and further
off of my original point.
Unfortunately there is not much one can do about this
- it is not possible to force people to respond as one
might wish (e.g., personal whinge here, I never got
any responses _at all_ to my query some while ago
about voyeurism in historical context!). Indeed, some
of the most rewarding discussions on this list have
occurred quite tangentially to the original initiating
post. People will naturally respond to the particular
aspects which interest them.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:41:55 -0400
From: Cristina Nelson <crn@alum.mit.edu>
Subject: [histsex] "whinge"
For those of us not familiar with technical terms, what is a "whinge"? It
sounds a bit like a frisbee.
Cristina Nelson
PhD Candidate
UNC CHapel Hill
___________________________________________________________________From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge"
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:19:54 GMT
> For those of us not familiar with technical terms,
what is a "whinge"? It
> sounds a bit like a frisbee.
>
Whinge - Australian, also UK, English usage v & n -
whine, moan, complain (allegedly a characteristic of
Poms, i.e. Brits)
Not some less-known sexual perversion or erotic
appliance, sorry. Except insofar as some people gain
some sort of gratification by whingeing on and on...
(well, this can be satisfying)
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
From: Kazetnik@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:21:39 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge"
A whinge is a British frisbee with a spiky edge :-^)
Lesley, what was the original enquiry about voyeurism in an historical
context? Sounds right up my street.... Or park.
Oh, and I have returned! Don't all groan at once.
Chris White
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: [histsex] Near Sex defined
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:48:01 -0600
The following examples are topics that fall under the category Near Sex.
Affection: Laws have been passed against teachers hugging kids in school.
These laws are attempts to prevent child sexual abuse but they go to such an
extreme that they outlaw all affection. The law is essentially calling hugs
sex.
Sex Education: Society norms make it difficult to talk about sex with
people. Sometimes when you try to talk to people about sex, you are seen as
a pervert. There is almost an unwritten societal rule that says if a person
talks about sex, than he/she must be out of control about sex.
Nudity: I have modeled for art classes and I have been to nudist colonies.
According to my father and several other people I know, anyone who is naked
in public is a pervert. Even though these same people find no problem in
looking at naked women in playboy, they condemn the models as hedonists and
in the same breath condemn all public nudity including public locker rooms.
To a large degree, I'm asking what makes the difference. A hug can be
sexual but isn't always. Sex talk can be sexual but isn't always. Nudity
can be sexual but isn't always. What criteria or test can be used to tell
when a hug, sex talk or nudity are sexual and when they are not.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Near Sex experiences....
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:37:13 +0100
Dear Mr Jencks,
I see your point: the overarching problem here is contextual. One cannot
talk about discourses of sexuality (or anything else) in absolute terms.
Your examples: moral/legal/social/pedagogical: are all restricted by their
institutional and social contexts. So, as long as these contexts are
defined in order to establish the parameters of your definition, then
whatever definition of licit sex/non-sex/near sex/illicit sex, etc will at
least be defined and then open to commentary. That is, what ever knowledge
claims you are making about sexuality can be discussed.
The beautiful thing about knowledge is that it is never the property of the
person who made the claim, but of the community who accept it.... rejected
knowledge claims are not knowledge.
This is why your final comment on criteria for testing is particualrly
difficult for me to accept. How does one make a claim for a prior knowledge
based on a test: one cannot... Data are always under-determined, so tests
therefore are as well, although the extent to which this is the case depends
on the social and intellectual climate.
ijdc
___________________________________________________________________From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:22:27 GMT
Chris White (good to see you back!)
asked
> Lesley, what was the original enquiry about
voyeurism in an historical
> context? Sounds right up my street.... Or park.
>
The original query was
'Does anyone on the list have any idea when the above
appeared as a definite sexual perversion? (i.e. that
people were noticed spying on others in sexual or
quasi sexual situations, or that there were provisions
for paying customers to do this in brothels). I would
surmise, but may be wrong, that it would either only
exist (as something which some individuals would
specifically seek out) or at least only become
noticeable, in a society in which privacy had become
more emphasised and sexual scenes would be less likely
to be casually encountered. But I'm open to being
persuaded otherwise.'
I'd still be interested to hear any thoughts about
this, although the immediate necessity (being asked to
be 'an expert' on the subject for a proposed
television programme) has passed.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:40:07 -0500
From: David Stewart <stewartd@email.uah.edu>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Near Sex defined
There is an excellent book by Morse Peckham that takes up this topic, if
indirectly. It is _Art and Pornography: An Experiment in Explanation_
(Harper & Row, 1971) [also Basic Books, 1969].
I'm certain to oversimplify Peckham, but it might be fair to say that
RESPONSE is his key, and not the act or the category.
We are more than capable of responding sexually to nearly anything, or to
nearly any juxaposition of things. A shoe can work as well as a photograph
of a nude back, front, etc.
Can an adult hugging a child respond sexually? (I didn't say "should" that
they do commonly.) Can a child interpret a hug as sexual child abuse? What
if the child had been sexually abused on the day of the hug? Would my father
respond sexually at a nudist colony?
I think it is fair to say that Peckham sees the response as the key to what
is real. If someone has responded sexually, then it is fair to say that they
found an ocassion for a sexual response. It fits the category "sexual." Once
we admit this it is easy to see that there are no, or very few, limiting
categories.
The fact that some see rape as not sexual is worth considering in this light.
Sorry for butchering Peckham for those who know his work.
Best wishes,
David Stewart
stewartd@email.uah.edu
___________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:48:27 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
Lesley,
I think it's really important to distinguish between the look/regard and
the Gaze; one is about directional positioning of the head and eyes to
take in a sight/prospect; the other exists outside of the subject as a
structure of looking encoding power relations which is often collapsed
with masculinist looking but is not natural to men. (I actually see the
Gaze as a technology which produces the male and the male body, but
that's another story).
I find Kaja Silverman's work on this to be most helpful. See her essays
in Male Subjectivity at the Margins (Routledge) (especially on
Fassbinder's cinema) and her essay "Fragments of a Fashionable Discourse"
in Tania Modleski, ed., Studies in Entertainment: Critical Approaches to
Mass Culture (Bloomington, IN: U. Indiana, 1986). Silverman gestures
towards the historicization of the Gaze; not so much the moment of its
historical emergence as the moment of its naturalization to men and male
looking. Very thoughtful.
Mike Murphy
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Colin Shingleton" <cshingleton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Near Sex defined
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:35:58 +1000
> My name is Colin Shingleton I have been auditing the exchange for a while
> and have a long question in my drafts file waiting to be sent... but two
> things on the current exchange. A dear deceased friend with an appetite
for
> men claimed that one should deny sexual contact even if caught in any
> connection with anyone...but that while true, and said with the greatest
> respect for a dear fun loving lady, is meant to be amusing. The other
thing.
> I am an older [my first degree was done in the 60s] Monash University
> Melbourne PhD student in philosophy. David Stewart is right according to
> Wittgenstein. It would seem that any contextualisation of any circumstance
> can be sexual or anything else for that matter i.e. moral, psychological,
> jurisprudential if we choose to so place it. The problem is in identifying
> sexual encounters which are or should be illegal. This is particularly a
> problem in light of the paucity of material about on the proximity of sex
to
> violence.
> I enjoy your site and have some serious questions myself to put on this
> matter.
> Colin Shingleton
___________________________________________________________________
From: MillerJimE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 22:59:27 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
lesleyah@primex.co.uk writes:
<< The original query was
'Does anyone on the list have any idea when the above
appeared as a definite sexual perversion? (i.e. that
people were noticed spying on others in sexual or
quasi sexual situations, or that there were provisions
for paying customers to do this in brothels). >>
Does it need to be defined as a "perversion"? I find that category
to be difficult to pin down when dealing with another issue as well, such as
voyurism. Anyway, I know the theme appears in ancient Roman art, such as the
Warren Cup and a fresco from Pompeii. I am not sure whether perversion can
be determined from these art works.
Jim Miller
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:52:06 GMT
> Does it need to be defined as a "perversion"? I
find that category
> to be difficult to pin down when dealing with
another issue as well, such as
> voyurism.
Yes, this is what I find problematic. When does there
emerge a prurient type of interest in peering at other
people, as opposed to a general interest in watching
(i.e. are there changes in the nature of 'The Gaze')
or indeed casual encounters with public nudity etc. I
suppose for it to be 'perversion' (okay, not perhaps
the most satisfactory term!) there would have to be
elements of furtiveness,
non-consensuality/reciprocity, and possibly a certain
addictive quality. But these are the sort of issues
around voyeurism/scoptophilia that I wanted to discuss
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:23:32 +0100
What Jim Miller's response to Lesley suggests to me is that there is no
sense in looking at an object (ie, people looking at other people), but
rather at the discursive (and other representations) of this object in terms
of the different fields which produce these discourses. By looking at
voyerism as a perversion, one is looking at the specific sexological and
psychoanalytical discourses which considered it as such. This is NOT the
same as seeing a representation of a person looking at another (ie, Actaeon
and Diana) on an ancient vase, or even seeing it it the Titian in the
national Gallery of Scotland. These are not based on the same logics, same
theories, same 'rules of construction'. Hence, the objects ar enot the
same. Krafft-Ebing or Havelock Ellis do not understand scoptophilia the
same way that Titian does.
Cheerio, Ivan
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________From: "Colin Shingleton" <cshingleton@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Near Sex defined
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:32:17 +1000
My name is Colin Shingleton I have been auditing the exchange for a while
and have a long question in my drafts file waiting to be sent... but two
things on the current exchange. A dear deceased friend with an appetite for
men claimed that one should deny sexual contact even if caught in any
connection with anyone...but that while true, and said with the greatest
respect for a dear fun loving lady, is meant to be amusing. The other thing.
I am an older [my first degree was done in the 60s] Monash University
Melbourne PhD student in philosophy. David Stewart is right according to
Wittgenstein. It would seem that any contextualisation of any circumstance
can be sexual or anything else for that matter i.e. moral, psychological,
jurisprudential if we choose to so place it. The problem is in identifying
sexual encounters which are or should be illegal. This is particularly a
problem in light of the paucity of material about on the proximity of sex to
violence.
I enjoy your site and have some serious questions myself to put on this
matter.
Colin Shingleton
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: [histsex] Art and Pornograhy by Morse Peckham and Near Sex defined
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:42:22 -0600
This is more like what I'm talking about when I talk about Near Sex.
Although, I'm not sure that defining sex in terms of response is adequate
because responses are determined by personal beliefs and perspectives. I
may not respond sexually to a hug because I do not believe that hugs are
sexual. If I did, I would probably either respond sexually or respond as
offended by the other person's sexuality even if the other person didn't
believe that he/she is being sexual. Does the issue then become "If I
believe it's true than it's true" or is there still some discussion needed?
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Rictor Norton" <norton@rictor.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Voyeurism
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 20:55:34 +0100
In England, the archetype of "the voyeur" is of course Peeping Tom. Though
the story of Lady Godiva and a certain Thomas of Coventry apparently goes
back to the early medieval period, I understand it was mainly during the
Restoration period that the story became part of popular culture and
"Peeping Tom" entered the language. In 18th century erotica (in France and
in England) and bawdy prints it's fairly common to show a servant hovering
in a door peeping at his mistress and her paramour making love. Sometimes of
course it's the husband returning home unexpected, only to discover he has
been cuckholded, and such an image doesn't show a voyeur. But quite a few of
them, as I say, do show the servants as voyeurs, sometimes a young servant
boy sporting an erection. Jim Miller mentioned the Warren Cup in this
connection, but he seems to have been misunderstood by Ivan Dalley-Crozier
to be referring to situations such as Diana looking at Actaeon on a vase
etc. The point of mentioning the Warren Cup is that a boyservant is peering
around the edge of a half-open door at a man and youth having sex, seemingly
with great interest, i.e. he is a voyeur peeping at sexual activity not
meant to be seen by him.
A bawdy English work in 1761 is called _Peeping through the Keyhole_ and
features a hero named Peeping Tim [sic]. William Hogarth's large print
"Strolling Actresses Dressing in a Barn", dated 1738, shows numerous actress
in various states of undress, with a young lad peeping through a hole in the
roof (i.e. the viewer of the painting and the boy are both voyeurs here).
Hogarth proposed his subscription for this and other prints with a little
print called "Boys Peeping at Nature". Standards of privacy were much less
emphasized in the early 18th century than they came to be in the Victorian
period, yet the image of the voyeur was well understood, and indeed seems to
be not uncommon for a good many centuries before that.
--
Rictor Norton, London
mailto:norton@rictor.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:59:11 -0500
From: David Nicholas Harley <David.N.Harley.4@nd.edu>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Voyeurism
Rictor is quite right, of course, in arguing that the depiction or
description of furtive gazing at nakedness or sexual activity has a long
cultural history. I would draw especial attention to the book of Susanna
and the Elders in the Old Testament Apocrypha.
This story was often depicted in the Renaissance and early modern periods,
most famously by Rembrandt:
http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/rembrandt/susanna.jpg.html
Also Lorenzo Lotto:
http://sunsite.dk/cgfa/lotto/p-lotto7.htm
Tintoretto:
http://www.khm.at/khm/staticE/page713.html
Guercino:
http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/g/guercino/susanna.html
Van Dyck:
http://www.abcgallery.com/V/vandyck/vandyck46.html
Artemisia Gentileschi:
http://members.nbci.com/womenart/artists/gentileschi/susanna.htm
This last is especially interesting, as it is not only her first signed and
dated painting, produced when she was 17 and therefore probably before her
famous rape, but also because it unequivocally takes the side of the
molested Susanna. There is no trace of the coy interest on Susanna's part
that is seemingly depicted by many male artists.
Lesley's point, however, was to enquire into the definition of this as a
"perversion". My impression is that, before the 18th or 19th centuries,
wishing to observe forbidden sights was regarded as understandable
curiosity, even if it led to the vengeful viciousness of the Elders.
Looking at the body was not, in and of itself, depraved. Rather, it was
the depraved imagination that was the problem. Perhaps the shift in
attitude is connected with the rise of tableaux vivants or, even more
likely, the rise of more downmarket strip shows. Or it may just be a
product of the prudishness and hypocrisy we tend to think of as "Victorian
values".
David Harley
Dept. of History
219 O'Shaughnessy
University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame IN 46556
219-631-7313
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Voyeurism
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:04:01 +0100
>"perversion". My impression is that, before the 18th or 19th centuries,
>wishing to observe forbidden sights was regarded as understandable
>curiosity,
I wonder if the stigmatisation of the pleasures of looking bears any
relationship to the rise of the pathologisation of masturbation? (If one can
date it to the C18th when Onania-mania first arose)
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________ From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Near Sex experiences....
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 18:47:54 -0600
> I see your point: the overarching problem here is contextual. One cannot
> talk about discourses of sexuality (or anything else) in absolute terms.
> Your examples: moral/legal/social/pedagogical: are all restricted by their
> institutional and social contexts. So, as long as these contexts are
> defined in order to establish the parameters of your definition, then
> whatever definition of licit sex/non-sex/near sex/illicit sex, etc will at
> least be defined and then open to commentary. That is, what ever knowledge
> claims you are making about sexuality can be discussed.
You're right. In a way, I'm trying to work within all these contexts at
once but I am aware of how different they are. I think the contexts that
are the most important (at least to me) are the legal and the social. The
legal in terms of helping law enforcement to pursue child abusers and other
criminal types without also harrassing innocence and kind heartedness. The
social in terms of improving communication so that we know when people want
to have sex with us and don't misread each other's signals.
> The beautiful thing about knowledge is that it is never the property of
the
> person who made the claim, but of the community who accept it.... rejected
> knowledge claims are not knowledge.
I disagree. Knowledge isn't owned by anyone. Neither the person who makes
the claim nor the community that accepts it. Knowledge is like the land is
to the Indians. We may use it. We may alter it. But we must respect it by
never claiming to own it.
> This is why your final comment on criteria for testing is particualrly
> difficult for me to accept. How does one make a claim for a prior
knowledge
> based on a test: one cannot... Data are always under-determined, so tests
> therefore are as well, although the extent to which this is the case
depends
> on the social and intellectual climate.
I'm not sure I understand this paragraph. How am I even attempting to make
a claim to prior knowledge? Rereading my own letter I realize that I
accidentally put a period when I meant to put a question mark. I meant to
type "What criteria or test can be used to tell when a hug, sex talk or
nudity are sexual and when they are not?" The specific criteria or test I
am looking for (if a criteria or test is possible) is: How can a person
tell when others are being sexual? And can one's sexuality be changed (for
example, can a pedophile relearn a different sexuality)?
Before anyone gets offended by that last question, even if one's sexuality
can be changed, I don't think that all sexuality should be changed. I would
only be interested in changing sexuality that is harmful such as child
abuse. Homosexuality is okay by me.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: [histsex] Historical perspective on Near Sex
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:16:19 -0600
Don't ask me for dates or references. I'm not that much of a historian. I
have a Bachelor of Science in Psychology.
However, from what I understand, The Victorian Era had a big influence on
the increase of child sexual abuse that we've been experiencing this
century. The Victorian Era taught standards that women were supposed to be
ignorant of sex. This led to the notion that innocent women were sexier
than experienced women. This led to the notion that innocence is sexy and
of course, what could be more innocent than a prepubescent.
>From what I understand, hollywood censorship increased the eroticism of
cleavage. The effect of censoring cleavage on the air sent the message that
cleavage is sexy. Since the censors have loosened up. The erotic interest
in cleavage has also seemed to decrease.
>From what I understand, in ancient times there was no concept of
homosexuality as an identity. They had a concept for homosexual acts but a
man could have sex with another man and (as long as he remained dominant) he
was still seen as good marriage material for the women. Then, there were a
lot higher percentage of bisexual stories around then there seem to be
today. In modern times, the belief is that you are either gay or you're
not. Most gay stories today are about men who have never had an experience
with a woman and have no interest in women.
Based on these historic examples, do beliefs exert a significant influence
on our definitions of sexuality? Is cleavage erotic because hollywood
taught us that it was erotic? Or is eroticism completely independent of
what we learn? If our beliefs exert a significant influence on eroticism,
than we need to be more responsible in what we teach our children so that
they eroticise in healthy, safe ways. (Again, I'm speaking against child
abuse and rape, not against lifestyle choices).
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 19:07:18 -0700
From: julian carter <jcarter@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: [histsex] slippery sexuality
Dear colleagues,
I think I'll take this opportunity to introduce myself. I work on the
concept of sexual normality in the early 20th c U.S.--which is to say, I'm
think about the horizons of the thinkable that govern "middle America" with
regard to sex. I'm especially interested in the racial element in that
normalized average American identity. I could, and probably eventually
will, say more--I'd benefit from opportunities to converse with you all
about my projects--but at the moment I'm interested in a comment from the
"Near Sex" thread:
>How can a person
>tell when others are being sexual? And can one's sexuality be changed (for
>example, can a pedophile relearn a different sexuality)?
One of the things that makes sexuality fun and interesting to me is
precisely that there is no empirically verifiable way to gauge another
person's erotic being. Hence the importance for sexual confidence of bodily
signs of arousal: is she wet? Is he hard? According to Linda Williams and
many another theorist of the gaze, a big part of conventional massmarket
porn consists of the attempt to document or "prove" not only desire but
pleasure--and in addition to such comparatively academic concerns, knowing
when your partner has come has direct practical value for relationships...
These questions of proof are also at the center of historical methodology
and can create big problems for those of us whose pursuit of sexual
certainty and knowledge happens in conversation with the dead. We all know
how difficult it can be to find Evidence of what people wanted, let alone
what they did or what it meant to them. And that brings me to the second
question above: Can one's sexuality be changed? It seems to me that the
belief in change over time is one a precondition for practicing the history
of sexuality, so certainly change can happen; the question is whether it
happens within one lifetime or across generations, and both scholarship and
personal experience suggest to me that the answer is yes. After all, isn't
that a basic tenet of the modern belief that childhood sexuality is either
nonexistent or distinct from adult sexuality? Without the belief that
sexuality changes across our lives, the notion that one might need to
protect children from pedophiles (or the Internet) would make little sense.
Finally, I'm wondering what happens if we shift the voice of your question
from passive to active: not, can change be imposed upon one (yes, but it's
usually traumatic and not necessarily permanent), but rather, how can we
account for the myriad ways in which sexuality continually changes, and
then what do we do with that solid remnant, the apparently-unchanging sense
of desiring selfhood and aroused flesh, that grounds individual identity in
lived experience?
As for the question about the pedophile changing his spots...it depends on
what you're calling sexuality, doesn't it? If what gets you hot is thinking
about the kiddies, I imagine it's pretty difficult to undo whatever's
working for you there. Just try eradicating your favorite fantasy material
from your internal monologue for a while and see if it works. But if one's
arousal is accompanied by recognition that this desire is only and always
material for fantasy....well, is the pedophile still "a pedophile" if the
desire isn't translated into action? Or if the desire is channeled into sex
with a consenting adult who gets his or her kicks through enacting youth or
infancy? Or if it's channeled into a life of loving support for youthful
self-discovery, as in teaching?
I'd love to get some thoughts about this from all of you out there in tv land
Julian
___________________________________________________________________
From: MillerJimE@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 01:51:30 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] Historical perspective on Near Sex
jencks4@home.com writes:
<< From what I understand, in ancient times there was no concept of
homosexuality as an identity. They had a concept for homosexual acts but a
man could have sex with another man and (as long as he remained dominant) he
was still seen as good marriage material for the women. >>
Actually homosexuality was an identity -- two identities, one for men,
the other for women, and the one for men was usually separate from pederasty.
Women who did women were known as tribads in both Greek and Latin. They had
very little space in the literature of the time, but what space they had
indicated they were seen as a distinct class of people. Likewise men who did
other men (adult-adult relationships) were seen as a distinct group, as often
theoretical and comic as realistic. Only in special situations (e.g. dealing
with a conquered army) was it appropriate for a man to do another adult man.
Pederasts were not seen as a distinct group. Pederasty was seen as a
legitimate alternative to women, and the adult male could switch between the
two. Sex between women or between adult males was seen as "queer" -- deviant
or substandard behavior. Sex between a man and a boy (with the adult having
the "man's" role) was seen as "straight" behavior. Having a mistress and
having a boy were roughly equivalent.
Jim Miller
___________________________________________________________________From: "Julie Cox" <jmcjls@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 00:04:27 -0700
> Let me know if you want to discuss this further.
> Cheerio, Ivan
well since you offered Ivan......I do have the Bland/Doan anthology. Also
the companion volume.
I didn't think Charcot would really count as a sexologist but in some ways
he seems to lead up to them. His work on "hysterics" for example.
I introduced myself approx. 2-3 weeks ago. But to give everyone a
refresher, I'm a PhD student in Literature at the University of California
at Santa Cruz. Interested in the scientific construction of sex, sexuality
and gender and its intersections with ethnicity and evolutionary theory.
Most interested in American Lit. from approx. 1890-1945 and how the
aforementioned make appearances in literary works. Like Frank Norris's
_McTeague_ for example. French is my secondary language (UCSC's Lit. dept.
is a comparative one)
Who would be considered the first sexologist? Who gets to call themselves
"sexologist"?I am interested in later sexologists, such as Kinsey, because
of the trajectory such later works inevitably follow from earlier ones. If
that makes sense. (might not, I should've been asleep a couple hours ago)
Thanks so much for all the suggestions.
Julie M. Cox
jmcjls@earthlink.net
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:33:02 +0100
Dear Julie,
You wrote:
"I didn't think Charcot would really count as a sexologist but in some ways
he seems to lead up to them. His work on "hysterics" for example."
Sure, I think that Charcot's work was essential to SOME later sexologists.
One of the really important aspects of Continental sexology was that many of
the practitioners (Moll, Krafft-Ebing, Forel, Fere, Schrenck-Notzing, etc)
wrote texts in hypnotism. Obviously there were more schools of hypnotism
than Charcot's (Bernheim, for example). But I think that one of the key
reasons that sexology developed was because hypnotists, esp. Fere and Binet,
started asking what made someone sexually attracted to some object in
particular. This built into work on fetichism, which is one strand of the
development of sexology. It makes up a whole strand of work on acquired
sexual desires. But the other major strand of sexological
research--congenital desires--is addressed by your comment below.
For this part, though, see Henri Ellenberger, The Dicovery of the
Unconsciousness, 1970, as well as an excellent article by George Makari,
"Towards Defining the Freudian Unconscious: Seduction, Sexology and the
Negative of Perversion (1896-1905)," History of Psychiatry, 3, 1997,
pp.459-486.
You mentioned:
"sexuality and gender and its intersections with ethnicity and evolutionary
theory."
This is another quite important strand in the development of sexology, esp.
of the kind promulgated by Havelock Ellis, as well as many homosexual rights
activists, like JA Symonds, Edward Carpenter, etc. Darwin, as you know, in
Descent of Man, addressed the question of sexual attraction in a biological
way, and this had the effect of relativising sexual taste in biologiocal
terms. Ellis' work is much more in this line of thinking than the other
Continental sexologists, but he also held some similar ideas to Albert Moll
(and refined them considerably). Although Ellis is indeed another topic: do
not getme started.
As for ethnology, it is important, because, for Ellis again (who is a very
significant figure), it suggests that many sexual practices are congenital
*because* they are universal (ie, inversion is not a product of Victorian
England, because it has been documented by Bancroft, Burton, Westermarck,
Malinowski, etc all over the world, and because it exists historically like
in Ancient Greece). This is Ellis' view, I hasten to add.
For more reading, see Lawrence
Ellis, for me, is extremely siginificant because he tried to pull together
both of these strands of sexological reasoning with in the context of late
Victorian and Edwardian science and mediicne. So, if you want a good, sound
introduction to pre-Freudian sex psychology, and into pre-Kinseyean
sexology, then could be worse sources than Ellis.
Cheerio, Ivan
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:35:04 +0100
That last reference I was putting in was Lawrence Birken, Consuming Desire:
Sexual Science and the Emergence of a Culture of Abundance, 1871-1914,
Ithaca, 1988. Got excited: sorry...
ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________
From: Ailly@gmx.de
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:50:18 +0200
Subject: [histsex] (fwd) History of Rape: A Bibliography
From: Stefan Blaschke <a2534304@Smail.Uni-Koeln.de>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2000 4:51 AM
Subject: Announcement: History of Rape: A Bibliography
History of Rape: A Bibliography
by Stefan Blaschke
Version 1.0 (October 25, 2000)
<URL:http://www.crosswinds.net/~blaschke/horb/horb.html>
The bibliography contains print and electronic articles, books and
other sources dealing - exclusively or in in parts - with the history of
rape, child abuse and sexual violence in general. Reviews and
translations are also listed. Where possible, links are provided to
sources that are available online.
The bibliography will be constantly updated. I am still searching
for more articles and books. If you have information to add or if you
found a mistake in the bibliography, please send an e-mail to me:
<mailto: a2534304@smail.uni-koeln.de>.
Table of Contents
I Bibliographies and other Tools
II General Works
III Ancient History
III.1 Greek History
III.2 Roman History
IV Medieval History
V Modern History
V.1 Early Modern Times
V.2 19th and 20th Centuries
VI Debate: A Natural History of Rape?
VI.1 Works by Randy Thornhill
VI.2 Critics and Reviews
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:58:21 +0100
Dear Julie, and others (if interested),
It just occurred to me that you might appreciate it if I posted my
bibliography on sexology and its development the list? This would contain
primary and secondary sources. Any thoughts?
ijdc, in a bout of benevolence.
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:59:41 +0100
From: cristina santos <cristina@sonata.fe.uc.pt>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
At 10:58 26/10/00 +0100, Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan wrote:
It just occurred to me that you might appreciate it if I posted my
>bibliography on sexology and its development the list?
Yes, please do, we're very much interested!
Thanks,
Cristina
Ana Cristina Santos
Centre for Social Studies
Apartado 3087
3001-401 Coimbra - Portugal
Phone 00 351 239855583
___________________________________________________________________From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:40:34 GMT
Mike
I find that distinction you draw my attention
to between the look and the Gaze really helpful. I
wonder if the stigmatisation of the voyeur goes
alongside the development of phenomena such as the
medical Gaze i.e. that there are those who are
permitted or even obliged to observe, but that this is
increasingly an area of reserved privilege? Though one
thing I find interesting/ironic is that there is v
little on voyeurism per se (as opposed to in
connection with particular fetishes) in the 'classic'
sexological compilations such as Krafft-Ebing, Ellis,
Bloch - who are themselves gazing at other people's
sexuality...
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________From: "scpayne" <scpayne@peoplepc.com>
Subject: RE:[histsex] New Member
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 06:51:31 -0400
Stuart C.Payne
scpayne@peoplepc.com
I would take this opportunity to thank-you all for the ongoing =
discussion regarding the historical aspects of your study of sexuality.
Although I do not fit into the category or realm of the researcher that =
all of you obviously have been involved with a great deal of
your lives; I do believe I might bring some intrigue into your quest by =
bringing to you that "fly-on-the-wall" insight that sometimes
brings about a new perspective that wasn't considered before.
I am a recent retiree who worked for a large automobile company. I am =
what is known as a "Tinsmith" but the title does not cover
the intricacies of the work involved.
My immediate reason for becoming a member of your list is to find =
information on behalf of my wife who is a social-worker .
She is currently the Program Coordinator of a volunteer group that =
provides court appointed special advocates for children in
child abuse cases. She also volunteers on a rape crisis hot line.
And although the aspects of this work is kept confidential between us ; =
she does occasionaly ask my advice about some
aspect of her current cases.
Ah!! There's the rub!! She wants information I don't have ;and she =
doesn't have the time to search for the answer.
So with that in mind I ask your indulgence as to my being a part of any =
future discussions ; or on the rare occasion
a request for information.
Thank-you,
Stuart C. Payne
scpayne@peoplepc.com
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] sexology bibliography from Crozier
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 12:08:23 +0100
OK, one largish bibliogrpahy.... I have edited out the social theory, the
general history, and things which otherwise are not relevant.
It is the bibliog. from my PhD thesis/forthcoming book on Havelock Ellis and
English medical writing on homosexuality, 1850-1900. I hope it is of some
use to some of you. But this is one of the most useful functions of lists
like this.
Cheerio, Ivan
Primary Sources
Acton, W., A Complete Practical Treatise on the Diseases of the Urinary and
Generative Organs, 1st ed, London, 1841
--, A Practical Treatise on the Diseases of the Urinary and Generative
Organs (in both sexes), 2nd ed., London, 1851
--, Functions and Disorders of the Reproductive Organs, 4th ed., London,
1865
--, Prostitution, Considered in its Moral, Social and Sanitary Aspects, In
London and Other Large Cities: With Proposals for the Mitigation and
Prevention of its Attendant Evils, London, 1857, 2nd ed. 1870, repr. London,
1969 (ed. Peter Fryer)
Anon., "Aberrations of the Sexual Instinct," Medical Times and Gazette,
February 9, 1867, pp.141-146
Anon., report on Westphal's "Die Conträre Sexualempfindung," Journal of
Mental Science, October, 1871, p.422
Bancroft, H. H., Native Races of the Pacific States of North America, 5
vols, London, 1875-1876
Beck, T. R., and J. B. Beck, Elements of Medical Jurisprudence, 7th ed.,
London, 1842
Annie Besant, Law of Population: Its Consequences, and its Bearing upon
Human Conduct and Morals, London, 1887
Binet, A., and Charles Féré, Animal Magnetism, New York, 1888
Bouchereau, G., "Erotic Insanity; or Erotomania," in H. Tuke (ed.), A
Dictionary of Psychological Medicine
Bradlaugh, C., and Annie Besant, "preface," to Charles Knowlton, Fruits of
Philosophy: or, the Private Companion of Young Married People, Melbourne,
1877
Bucknill, J. C., and D. H. Tuke (eds), Manual of Psychological Medicine,
Philadelphia, 1858, [orig. London, 1852]
Burton, R. F., Book of a Thousand Nights and a Night, 10 vols., "Terminal
Essay", 10, London, 1886
Burton, R. F., Book of a Thousand Nights and a Night, 7 vols., London, 1897
Carpenter, E., Love's Coming-of-Age: A Series of Papers on the Relation of
the Sexes, London, 1930, [orig 1894]
--, My Days and Dreams, London, 1916
--, The Intermediate Sex, London and Manchester, 1921, [orig.1908]
-- , The Intermediate Type Among Primitive Folk, London, 1919
Casper, J. L., "Ueber Nothzucht und Päderastie und deren Ermittelung Seitens
des Gerichtesarztes" Vierteljahrschrift für gerichtliche öffentliche
Medizin, 1, Berlin, 1852, repr. in Joachim Hohmann (ed), Der unterdrückte
Sexus, Berlin, 1977, pp.239-70
--, Handbook for the Practice of Forensic Medicine, Based Upon personal
Experience, 4 vols, trans. G. W. Balfour, London, 1863-5
Costler, A., Willy and others, Encyclopaedia of Sexual Knowledge, ed. Norman
Haire, London, 1924, [repr. 1934]
Courtenay, F. B., On Spermatorrhoea: How to Treat and Cure it: With
Practical Observations on the Professional Fallacies and Popular Delusions
which Prevail in Relation to its Nature, 7th Edition, London, 186*, [1st
ed., 1857]
Curling, T.B. A Practical Treatise on the Diseases of the Testis and of the
Spermatic Cord and Scrotum, 4th ed., London, 1878
Darwin, C., The Descent of Man, 2nd ed., London, 1888
Dawson, R., An Essay on Spermatorrhoea, and Urinary Deposits, With
Observations of the Nature, Causes, and Treatment of Various Disorders of
the Generative System, 6th ed., London, 1852, [1st ed., 1840]
Drysdale, G.R., Elements of Social Science; or, Physical, Sexual and Natural
Religion, London, 34th ed., 1900
Dunn, R., Medical Psychology, London, 1863
Ellis, H., The Criminal, London, 1890
--, Man and Woman, London, 1894
--, "The Study of Sexual Inversion," Medico-Legal Journal, 12, 1894,
pp.148-57
--, "Sexual Inversion in Women," Alienist and Neurologist, 16, 1895,
pp.148-59
--, "A Note on the Treatment of Sexual Inversion", Alienist and Neurologist,
17, 1896, pp.257-64
--, "Sexual Inversion in Man," Alienist and Neurologist, 17, 1896, pp.115-50
--, "On Dreaming of the Dead," Psychological Review, 2, 1895
--, "A Note on Hypnagogic Paramnesia," Mind, n.s. 7, 1897
--, Sexual Inversion, Watford, 1897
--, "A Note on the Bedborough Trial," privately printed, Watford, 1898
--, "The Question of Indecent Literature (Letters to the Editor)," Lancet,
1898 II, p.1409
--, "Hysteria in Relation to the Sexual Emotions," Alienist and Neurologist,
19, 1898, pp.599-615
--, "The Stuff Dreams are Made Of," Popular Science Monthly, 1899
--, Sexual Inversion, Philadelphia, 1901
--, Review of Über den Traum, by Sigmund Freud, Journal of Mental Science,
47, 1901, pp.370-1
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Better?;" Journal of Social History, 19, 1985, pp.625-34
Storr, M., "Transformations: subjects, categories and cases in
Krafft-Ebing's sexology," in Bland & Doan (eds), Sexology in Culture
Sulloway, F.J., Freud, Biologist of the Mind: Beyond the Psychoanalytic
Legend, New York, 1979
--, "Reassessing Freud's Case Histories: the Social Construction of
Psychoanalysis," Isis, 82, 1992, pp. 245-75
Summers, A., "The Correspondents of Havelock Ellis," History Workshop
Journal, 1991, Autumn, p166-183
Szreter, S., "Falling Fertility and Changing Sexualities in Europe since
c.1850," in Eder, Hall & Hekma (eds), Sexual Cultures in Europe: National
Histories
Walkowitz, J., Prostitution and Victorian Society; Women, Class and the
State, Cambridge, 1980
Waters, C., "Havelock Ellis, Sigmund Freud and the State: discourses of
homosexuality in interwar Britain," in Bland & Doan (eds), Sexology in
Culture
Weeks, J., Coming Out: Homosexual Politics in Britain, from the Nineteenth
Century to the Present, London, 1977
--, "Havelock Ellis and the Politics of Homosexuality," in Rowbotham and
Weeks, Socialism and the New Life, London, 1977
--, Sex, Politics and Society: The Regulation of Sexuality Since 1800, 2nd
ed., London, 1989
--, Against Nature, London, 1991
--, "Inverts, Perverts, and Mary-Annes: Male Prostitution and the Regulation
of Homosexuality in England in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries," in
Weeks, Against Nature, pp43-68
Young, R. M., "Freud: scientist and/or humanist," Revised version of a talk
given to the Group for the History of the Human Sciences, Durham University,
Free Associations, 6, 1986, pp.7-35,
http://www.human-nature.com/rmyoung/papers/paper42.html
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:58:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Elise R Chenier <3erc3@qlink.queensu.ca>
Subject: [histsex] Sexology
Greetings,
Recently I spent some time at the Kinsey Institute where it was pointed
out to me in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a
sexologist. There is no program of sexology, no degree in sexology,
etc. Although I admit that I still use the term occasionally, and of
course we historians all know what we mean when we say it, I thought I'd
share with you this apparent irritant among "medical experts" who study
sex.
>
> Who would be considered the first sexologist? Who gets to call themselves
> "sexologist"?I am interested in later sexologists, such as Kinsey, because
Elise Chenier
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:21:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Leslie Ambedian <ambedian@yorku.ca>
Subject: [histsex] listbot query
Is there a way to have histsex messages show up in digest form through
listbot? I've looked, and not found a way so far.
-Leslie
***
Leslie Ambedian "Soylent Green... ...is not people.
ambedian@wiznet.ca Soylent Green is kittens. We apologise
or ambedian@yorku.ca for the error."
http://www.wiznet.ca/~ambedian
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:28:11 +0100
Dear Elise Chernier,
Sure, although I am not convinced that it is not a useful shorthand category
for historians. And as I am not writing medical stuff, but historical texts
for other historians, then the term I chose has to have some meaning for
historians rather than medics. And it is a term used by historians: see
Bland and Doan, 1998, for example. In this historian-friendly sense,
sexologist means sex psychologist/sex sociologist, and a whole batch of
other types of medical and pseudo-medical stuff (psychiatry, jurisprudence,
etc). And at different times it has had a similar meaning for the
practitioners of sexology: what about the British Sexological Association?
As I also study them (in their earlier incarnation as the Brit Soc for the
Study of Sex Psychology), I am not sure if it is such a problem.
This is not meant to sound as irritated as it surely does.
ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:33:35 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
Lesley,
To think that the stigmatization of the voyeur accompanied the emergence
of the medical gaze seems to me to ask whether the concept of the Gaze
developed by Lacan is reconcilable with Foucault's notion of the
panopticon developed in Discipline and Punish. All of Foucault's work
depends on the notion of the Enlightenment as a great rupture inagurating
new social relations, not the least of which were the empiricist human
sciences and medical looking (although he curiously overlooked the
invention of photography in the early 19th c., hmmm). The late 18th
century is the exact period Kaja Silverman points to in her assertion
that men arrogated the gaze to themselves but do not actually own it. She
and I are both interested in the role of fashion in (re)asserting men's
'natural' ownership of the Gaze.
Neo-natal thought: I wonder if it might be useful to separate primary
scop(t)ophilia from voyeurism, the prior being pleasure gained from
looking, the latter being the socially unacceptable pursuit of pleasure
in looking, often encoding unequal sex/gender relations? It seems to me a
key element of voyeurism is the voyeur's desire to see without being seen
(like cinematic spectatorship, but that's far afield). S/he always looks
'through the keyhole' so to speak. This structure of
seeing-without-being-seen denies the fundamentally specular foundations
of subjectivity laid out by Lacan--that is our sense of ourselves in our
bodies comes from our image of ourselves seen from outside ourselves; we
are profoundly dependent on the gaze of the Other, hence the notion of
inter-subjectivity. I can't help but think that the rise of Enlightenment
philosophies of possessive individualism--property in oneself--are not
merely coincidental with a voyeuristic practice which derives pleasure
from disavowing the viewer's dependence on an Other's gaze. In short, men
assert their consonance with individualist ideologies by denying any
social (inter)dependence, and they do so by pursuing visual pleasures
which disavow their fundamental dependence on the look of the Other for
their subjectivity. Of course, this disavowal cannot succeed; how could
it without the collapse of their subjectivity (at least according to
Lacan)? Perhaps this explains the sexual frisson attached to the
possibility of being caught looking-without-being-seen? It does not
surprise me that male sexologists failed to discuss voyeuristic looking
apart from its association with fetishistic neuroses, afterall like all
empirical scientists they were primarily concerned to define the normal
through the discursive production (they called it 'identification') of
the abnormal and pathological. To discuss male voyeurism as abnormal
would be to reveal the processes by which the Gaze is naturalized to men.
And that would mean The Fall of Western Civilization, and we can't have
that, now can we?
Further neo-natalism: As for voyeurism in Ancient Egypt and Rome, that
presents a certain methodological problem in the use of psychoanalysis.
What must be weighed are the explanatory values of psychoanalysis against
the assumptions inherent in its ahistorical application, i.e. are
intra-psychic processes universal or somehow inherent in human
consciousness outside of history? By separating scopophilia from
voyeurism we might detach the hard-wired cognitive process of 'pleasure
gained though looking' from the historical phenomenon of voyeurism as it
encodes unequal relations of sex or gender (or indeed race, ethnicity and
class)? Perhaps the one structure has been collapsed into the other but
is not natural to it?
Sorry if I ramble; hope this is useful to you.
Mike
>Mike
>I find that distinction you draw my attention
>to between the look and the Gaze really helpful. I
>wonder if the stigmatisation of the voyeur goes
>alongside the development of phenomena such as the
>medical Gaze i.e. that there are those who are
>permitted or even obliged to observe, but that this is
>increasingly an area of reserved privilege? Though one
>thing I find interesting/ironic is that there is v
>little on voyeurism per se (as opposed to in
>connection with particular fetishes) in the 'classic'
>sexological compilations such as Krafft-Ebing, Ellis,
>Bloch - who are themselves gazing at other people's
>sexuality...
>
>
>Lesley Hall
>lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:46:14 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
Ivan and Elise,
I wonder if it's useful to consider how the term sexologist functions to
consoldiate sex as one thing instead of many things, and to imply that
sex is merely a matter of empirical inquiry and study, that its evidence
is the evidence of genital contact, etc. In short that the moniker
Sexologist does not merely mark the emergence of a quasi-discipline in
the human sciences but serves an ideological function within the history
of sexuality?
Mike Murphy
Michael J. Murphy, M.A.
Doctoral Student, Dept. of Art History and Archaeology
Washington University, St. Louis
mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu
"I've always depended on the kindness of strangers." -Blanche Dubois
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] listbot query
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:51:22 GMT
> Is there a way to have histsex messages show up in
digest form through
> listbot? I've looked, and not found a way so far.
>
Sorry - a digest option is another thing that is not
enabled in listbot. I'm still open to other
suggestions for an alternative listserv.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:12:15 +0100
Dear Mike,
While I agree with what you are saying, one must remember that it was
precisely the aim of the early sexologists to say exactly what sex is... And
this is why there are so many institutional and field specific clashes
between people (like Freud and Ellis, for example). I am not saying that
there is one meaning of sex only, but Albert Moll might well have thought he
had the answers to the question of what made sexual desire possible, or what
sex really is (or Freud, or Fere, or Forel, etc). Again, this is the
difference between me writing as an historian of medical writing, and a
doctor in the 19th C writing about sex.
ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 11:11:39 -0700 (MST)
From: Tim Hodgdon <Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Question for Michael J. Murphy re his proposal to distinguish
"scopophilia" from "voyeurism": are the consequences different for the
person being looked at?
Tim Hodgdon
Ph.D. candidate
Department of History
Arizona State University
Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] slippery sexuality
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:54:41 -0600
>well, is the pedophile still "a pedophile" if the
> desire isn't translated into action? Or if the desire is channeled into
sex
> with a consenting adult who gets his or her kicks through enacting youth
or
> infancy? Or if it's channeled into a life of loving support for youthful
> self-discovery, as in teaching?
The only problem is that a significant number (if not the majority) of
pedophiles also eroticize violence and/or manipulation. This makes it more
difficult to channel especially into "a life of loving support for youthful
self-discovery, as in teaching."
I am very interested in the active question "how do we come to terms with
the myriad of sexual variations?" I am also generally interested in more of
your views.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:03:36 -0600
>ntly I spent some time at the Kinsey Institute where it was pointed
> out to me in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a
> sexologist. There is no program of sexology, no degree in sexology,
> etc.
If ever there is such a thing as a sexologists, it probably will be a term
that is rarely used like the term biologists. Within biology are hundreds
of specialties including zoology, ecology, and agronomy. Within sexology
there is the psychology of sex, the history of sex, the physiology of sex
and probably hundreds of other specialties. When we come up with terms for
people who study each specialty we'll probably use these specialty terms
more often than the generic and therefore hard to define term of sexology.
___________________________________________________________________
From: p.lincoln@att.net
Subject: Re: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:52:06 +0000
Humbug -- from those who know better!
> Greetings,
>
> Recently I spent some time at the Kinsey Institute where it was pointed
> out to me in no uncertain terms that there is no such thing as a
> sexologist. There is no program of sexology, no degree in sexology,
> etc. Although I admit that I still use the term occasionally, and of
> course we historians all know what we mean when we say it, I thought I'd
> share with you this apparent irritant among "medical experts" who study
> sex.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Julie Cox" <jmcjls@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] sexology bibliographies?/sex in ancient Egypt
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 20:40:23 -0700
> It just occurred to me that you might appreciate it if I posted my
> bibliography on sexology and its development the list? This would contain
> primary and secondary sources. Any thoughts?
YES PLEASE! (goodness I hope you haven't done so already. Thurs. is my long
day and I get to things so late.)
Julie Cox
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas, Julie Lynn" <julthoma@indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology and a question
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 21:02:15 -0500
As someone who works at the Kinsey Institute (constructing finding aids for
the Kinsey archive), I must confess, I've never heard anyone in the
reference area state that there is no such thing as a sexologist. Perhaps
those conducting present research at the Institute don't refer to themselves
as sexologists.....
On another topic, as I continue my dissertation work on US sexologists in
the 1920s and 1930s, with a focus on those who traveled to the Soviet Union,
I am in search of a collection of Frederick Taussig's papers - especially
those relating to my topic, of course.... His text, _Abortion, Spontaneous
and Induced_ references his travels to the Soviet Union.
Thank you in advance!
Julie Thomas
Visiting Lecturer
Gender Studies
Indiana University Bloomington
julthoma@indiana.edu
**********************************************************************
"Bobby, if you're going to get fired, you should lay back and enjoy it'"*
Julie Thomas
Visiting Lecturer, Gender Studies
http://www.indiana.edu/~gens
* Bobby Knight to Connie Chung "If a woman is going to be raped, she should
lay back and enjoy it"
___________________________________________________________________From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] a question
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:50:38 GMT
Julie Thomas wrote:
> I am in search of a collection of Frederick
Taussig's papers - especially
> those relating to my topic, of course.... His text,
_Abortion, Spontaneous
> and Induced_ references his travels to the Soviet
Union.
I haven't come across Taussig's papers myself, but if
you haven't already, you might investigate the RL
Dickinson and Norman Himes papers in the Countway
Library to see if they had any correspondence with
him.
I'd be interested if you do come across any of his
papers - if you do, please could you let me know if he
had any contact with UK abortion law reformer FW
Stella Browne? Thanks
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: [histsex] Fwd: FitzGerald and Havelock Ellis
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:54:06 GMT
The following query was posted to VICTORIA. In case
there are any Ellis experts on Histsex who are not
also subscribed to VICTORIA, I've forwarded it for the
benefit of their opinions.
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
Forwarded Message:
> To: VICTORIA@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU
> From: Sheldon Goldfarb <goldfarb@INTERCHANGE.UBC.CA>
> Subject: FitzGerald and Havelock Ellis
> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 19:01:21 -0700
> -----
> In a rather eccentric 1949 study of Edward
FitzGerald, Peter de Polnay
> quotes Havelock Ellis as saying that "it is easy to
trace an element of
> homosexuality [in FitzGerald], though it appears
never to have reached full
> and conscious development."
>
> Not being of a scholarly persuasion, de Polnay does
not bother giving any
> citation. I am wondering if anyone knows where
Ellis wrote this. (There
> is more than just this sentence on FitzGerald: de
Polnay quotes a whole
> paragraph; perhaps there is even a whole article.)
>
> Thanks in advance. (This is for a DNB article on
FitzGerald.)
>
> Sheldon Goldfarb
> goldfarb@interchange.ubc.ca
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:28:48 +0100
I am not sure if I would say that historians of sex were a species of
sexologist: I spend all of my time at parties telling people I am NOT a
sexologist. And then they go and talk to someone else...
ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:00:23 +0100
Dear Mike,
Me again...
The work of Kaja Silverman, as well as your own, sounds appealling: please
send refs. I have more specific comments on your "neo-natal thoughts". But
I like the lacanian aspects... very thought provoking.
When you wrote "To discuss male voyeurism as abnormal would be to reveal the
processes by which the Gaze is naturalized to men", I cannot help thinking
that you meant scopophila rather than voyeurism, but I would like you to
articualte why I am wrong. This is because I am considering voyeurism as a
sexological and psychoanalytic category, which is pathologised precisely in
order to prop up the norm, as you pointed out in true Canguilhem style! And
this brings me to my next point....
You wrote:
"As for voyeurism in Ancient Egypt and Rome, that presents a certain
methodological problem in the use of psychoanalysis. What must be weighed
are the explanatory values of psychoanalysis against the assumptions
inherent in its ahistorical application, i.e. are intra-psychic processes
universal or somehow inherent in human consciousness outside of history? By
separating scopophilia from voyeurism we might detach the hard-wired
cognitive process of 'pleasure gained though looking' from the historical
phenomenon of voyeurism as it encodes unequal relations of sex or gender (or
indeed race, ethnicity and class)? Perhaps the one structure has been
collapsed into the other but is not natural to it?"
Crozier writes:
In some ways, it is surely impossible to address Roman voyeurism as a
practice with psychoanalysis, surely, as there is the problem of the lack of
case material to properly analyse something... That is, we cannot get to a
ROman voyeur, just representations of them on Vases and the like, although
some of the insights derived from analytic speculation might be evocative.
Anyway, this is another issue (the efficacy of analysis of artefacts rather
than patients, assuming that patients are not artefacts: and I am not happy
to assume this).
But, my actual point is that when you are talking about voyeurism in the
Ancient world, it is necessarily a different thing to the psychoanalytic and
sexological category (or object) of voyeurism. There may well be the
'hard-wired' scopophilic reality, to be sure, but how do we get to that? If
we remove the analytic/sexological 'voyeur' frm this material reality, then
we sure replace it with another standpoint, like neurology or literary
criticism or such like? That is, one cannot get the ahhistorical view point
of which you write. This is not the least, as you suggest, because they are
encoded/encrypted in gender and sexual relations anyway, which are of course
culturally specific.
Still, thanks for the thought-provoking posting.
Cheerio, Ivan
___________________________________________________________________From: "Donna Larsen" <ladydonna85@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Fwd: FitzGerald and Havelock Ellis
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:36:55 GMT
What is VICTORIA?
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Fwd: FitzGerald and Havelock Ellis
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:57:48 GMT
> What is VICTORIA?
VICTORIA: The electronic conference for Victorian
Studies discussion list, details available at
http://www.indiana.edu/~victoria/discussion.html
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________
From: <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] listbot query
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:02:39 GMT
Heather Lee Miller asked
> Could we get on H-Net?
It would certainly be wonderful to get on either H-Net
or the UK equivalent, mailbase. However, when I was
investigating mailbase at least at that time the list
owner had to be running the list from an ac.uk
address, and I suspect that the same would apply to
H-Net. I'll investigate further however. If anyone
know anything about the requirements and
practicalities, or has any experience of running lists
through either of them, I'd be pleased to hear from
them (though perhaps offlist would be best.)
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:19:11 -0700
From: Heather Lee Miller <miller.1438@osu.edu>
Subject: Re: [histsex] listbot query
Could we get on H-Net?
At 03:51 PM 10/26/2000 GMT, you wrote:
>Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/listinf.htm
>
>> Is there a way to have histsex messages show up in
>digest form through
>> listbot? I've looked, and not found a way so far.
>>
>Sorry - a digest option is another thing that is not
>enabled in listbot. I'm still open to other
>suggestions for an alternative listserv.
>
>Lesley Hall
>lesleyah@primex.co.uk
___________________________________________________________________Subject: RE: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:44:50 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
>Dear Mike,
>
>Me again...
>
>The work of Kaja Silverman, as well as your own, sounds appealling: please
>send refs.
Ivan did you ge tteh references I posted for Lesley? If not I'll sned
them to you privately.
>I have more specific comments on your "neo-natal thoughts". But
>I like the lacanian aspects... very thought provoking.
>
>When you wrote "To discuss male voyeurism as abnormal would be to reveal the
>processes by which the Gaze is naturalized to men", I cannot help thinking
>that you meant scopophila rather than voyeurism, but I would like you to
>articualte why I am wrong. This is because I am considering voyeurism as a
>sexological and psychoanalytic category, which is pathologised precisely in
>order to prop up the norm, as you pointed out in true Canguilhem style! And
>this brings me to my next point....
What I was trying to get at was that the pathologization of neurotic
voyeurism may actually work to sanction and thereby obscure a more
general male appropriation of the Gaze which (within its own patriarchal
ideology) does not cross some arbitrary line demarcating normal looking.
The notion of normal male scopophilia defined against abnormal voyeurism
might shelter the male appropriation of the Gaze against examination. In
other words, what part (if any) of scophophila is 'natural' to man and
what part has he thefted but characterized as 'natural'.
>You wrote:
>"As for voyeurism in Ancient Egypt and Rome, that presents a certain
>methodological problem in the use of psychoanalysis. What must be weighed
>are the explanatory values of psychoanalysis against the assumptions
>inherent in its ahistorical application, i.e. are intra-psychic processes
>universal or somehow inherent in human consciousness outside of history? By
>separating scopophilia from voyeurism we might detach the hard-wired
>cognitive process of 'pleasure gained though looking' from the historical
>phenomenon of voyeurism as it encodes unequal relations of sex or gender (or
>indeed race, ethnicity and class)? Perhaps the one structure has been
>collapsed into the other but is not natural to it?"
>
>Crozier writes:
>
>In some ways, it is surely impossible to address Roman voyeurism as a
>practice with psychoanalysis, surely, as there is the problem of the lack of
>case material to properly analyse something... That is, we cannot get to a
>ROman voyeur, just representations of them on Vases and the like, although
>some of the insights derived from analytic speculation might be evocative.
>Anyway, this is another issue (the efficacy of analysis of artefacts rather
>than patients, assuming that patients are not artefacts: and I am not happy
>to assume this).
But Ivan we have innumerable classical texts on which to rely. And within
Lacanian psychoanalysis representations are the key to subjectivity so
they'd be invaluable to a psychanalystic reading. Indeed Whitney Davis
has written psychanalytic histories of Ancient Egypt.
>But, my actual point is that when you are talking about voyeurism in the
>Ancient world, it is necessarily a different thing to the psychoanalytic and
>sexological category (or object) of voyeurism. There may well be the
>'hard-wired' scopophilic reality, to be sure, but how do we get to that? If
>we remove the analytic/sexological 'voyeur' frm this material reality, then
>we sure replace it with another standpoint, like neurology or literary
>criticism or such like? That is, one cannot get the ahhistorical view point
>of which you write. This is not the least, as you suggest, because they are
>encoded/encrypted in gender and sexual relations anyway, which are of course
>culturally specific.
Now here we have a problem which seems to parallel the list's earlier
extensive discussion of the application of the term homosexuality to
pre-modern times. Is psychoanalysis an historic artifact or a viable
analytical and descriptive system, or both? Or does the language of
psychoanalysis actually call into existence what it purports to merely
describe? Given the pressure applied to Freud and Lacan especially by
feminist critics I would think one would have to proceed with a
sophisticated understanding of the problems of psychoanalysis and not
just its usefulness.
To simply describe the Ancients as voyeurs would be unforgiveably crude,
and bad history to boot. But there seems to be some continuities with our
present, which is probably what attracts us to particular past moments in
the first place. So our task is to tease out the specific valences of
what seems familiar from the past without rewriting the past in the image
of the present. I see history to emerge from and serve the needs of the
present; a reordering of the past in a writing in the present. So as long
as psychoanalysis holds persuasive value for us I view it as a viable
historical methodology although one with numerous liabilities.
Mike
___________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:44:49 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
Hi Tim!
Yours is a good point. But I think I would argue that there aren't any
inherent consequences of either, as the object of visual inquiry tends to
react (or not act at all) in various ways: resistance, gratitude,
outrage, disbelief, solicitude, violation. But I think the tendency to
react as though one is violated stems from a knowledge that the viewer is
taking pleasure at the expense of the viewed. The exact nature, indeed
even existence, of that expense is arguable and certainly historically
variable. And of course the scrutinizing look which has appropriated the
Gaze often encodes more tangible social inequalities, and often precedes
actual physical interaction, like violence, rape or pelvic exams.
Mike
>Question for Michael J. Murphy re his proposal to distinguish
>"scopophilia" from "voyeurism": are the consequences different for the
>person being looked at?
>
>Tim Hodgdon
>Ph.D. candidate
>Department of History
>Arizona State University
>Tim.Hodgdon@asu.edu
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 10:52:37 -0500
From: Gail Bederman <Gail.Bederman.1@nd.edu>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology and a question
Re Taussig's papers:
I was researching Taussig's papers for awhile, although that project
is now back-burnered for awhile. I recall two things which might be
of interest:
First there are a lot of Taussigs in the St. Louis area who are
probably relations. You might well try to contact them and see
whether they have papers. (Taussig lived and died in St. Louis). You
can look them up at www.switchboard.com, or some similar website.
Second, Taussig's wife, Florece G. Taussig, was a very active member
of the Women's International League for Peace and Freedom (which may
well also have some bearing, in part, on Taussig's travels to the
USSR?) She has a number of letters in the Swarthmore College Peace
Collection. I believe she travelled with him to the Soviet Union,
though I'm not sure.
Question for you: Do you really think of Taussig as a sexologist? If so, why?
(Also, if you don't know Judith Allen, who teaches at Indiana
University in women's studies and history, you should certainly look
her up. She's working on Taussig too, I think, and is doing
brilliant stuff on Kinsey, Calderone, and others in that circle.)
Best,
Gail
>Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
>http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/listinf.htm
>
>
>As someone who works at the Kinsey Institute (constructing finding aids for
>the Kinsey archive), I must confess, I've never heard anyone in the
>reference area state that there is no such thing as a sexologist. Perhaps
>those conducting present research at the Institute don't refer to themselves
>as sexologists.....
>
>On another topic, as I continue my dissertation work on US sexologists in
>the 1920s and 1930s, with a focus on those who traveled to the Soviet Union,
>I am in search of a collection of Frederick Taussig's papers - especially
>those relating to my topic, of course.... His text, _Abortion, Spontaneous
>and Induced_ references his travels to the Soviet Union.
>
>Thank you in advance!
>
>Julie Thomas
>Visiting Lecturer
>Gender Studies
>Indiana University Bloomington
>julthoma@indiana.edu
>
>
>**********************************************************************
>
>"Bobby, if you're going to get fired, you should lay back and enjoy it'"*
>
>Julie Thomas
>Visiting Lecturer, Gender Studies
>http://www.indiana.edu/~gens
>
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:00:26 -0500
From: David Nicholas Harley <David.N.Harley.4@nd.edu>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Ivan wrote:
>I am not sure if I would say that historians of sex were a species of
>sexologist: I spend all of my time at parties telling people I am NOT a
>sexologist. And then they go and talk to someone else...
David Harley:
I dare say your wife is pleased by this refusal of yours to become a social
honeypot, but it might well be true to say that you are a "historical
sexologist", along the lines of being a historical demographer, for
example, were it not for the fact that you study intellectuals' ideas about
sex rather than actual social practices, insofar as they can be recovered
from the documents. Sex in the head rather than sex in the archives, as it
were.
Didn't somebody once say there was an interesting essay to be written about
the sexlessness of historians? A start has been made by Bonnie G.Smith, in
The Gender of History : Men, Women, and Historical Practice, 1998.
David Harley
Dept. of History
219 O'Shaughnessy
University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame IN 46556
219-631-7313
___________________________________________________________________
From: Kazetnik@aol.com
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 12:12:34 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] listbot query
One possible is egroups, who do digests and web only/no mail options. Not
sure about their academic panache tho'....
Chris White
___________________________________________________________________
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:47:42 -0500
From: David Nicholas Harley <David.N.Harley.4@nd.edu>
Subject: [histsex] Psychological explanation in history
Mike Murphy wrote, in reply to Ivan Crozier:
>Is psychoanalysis an historic artifact or a viable
>analytical and descriptive system, or both? Or does the language of
>psychoanalysis actually call into existence what it purports to merely
>describe?
David Harley:
Now here's a new question that we might fruitfully debate, perhaps starting
a new thread on the list. This is actually a problem with all forms of
psychological explanation deployed by historians, especially the "common
sense" folk psychology deployed unreflectively by empiricist historians.
Of course psychoanalysis is a historical artefact, like any other theory on
any topic. Moreover, it displays a "looping mechanism", as various writers
from Berger and Luckmann through to Ian Hacking have pointed out. That is
to say, ideas about emotions and states of mind form the material from
which we construct our personalities. Moderately literate people in the
late eighteenth century thought of themselves and their experiences in
terms of nervous sensibility, whereas in the early twentieth century they
started to think in terms of complexes and neuroses. Psychologists,
psychiatrists and psychoanalysts are not studying timeless forces but
historically located patients, so that those phenomena which Freud claimed
to have observed in fin de siecle Vienna have been generalized out to cover
all humans at all times, which seems to me, as a historian, rather
implausible. Did Cromagnons suffer from the Oedipus complex? For that
matter, did Oedipus?
Mike Murphy:
So our task is to tease out the specific valences of
>what seems familiar from the past without rewriting the past in the image
>of the present. I see history to emerge from and serve the needs of the
>present; a reordering of the past in a writing in the present.
David Harley:
Past as Same; Past as Different; Past as Analogous. These seem to be
fundamentally opposed ways of studying history, involving opposed epistemic
stances. The questions we ask are inevitably those of modern historians,
but how far our answers ought to be modern-minded is a moot point, and
rather depends upon our purposes. Rictor Norton would see this issue
rather differently from the way I do, I suspect. Like an anthropologist, I
look for and try to respect difference. Rictor's scholarship has a more
engaged manner.
Mike Murphy:
So as long
>as psychoanalysis holds persuasive value for us I view it as a viable
>historical methodology although one with numerous liabilities.
David Harley:
Anything can hold persuasive value for us, if we believe in it. We can
write Marxist histories of class conflict in Ancient Rome, if we choose to
ignore the historical specificity of class consciousness. We can write
psychiatric histories of the witchcraze, if we choose to ignore the
historical specificity of the ideas and emotions involved. As long as we
are convinced that our theory is "scientific", i.e. outside the realm of
history, we can apply it to any time and place we see fit.
The role of psychoanalytic theory in history surely lies within the realm
of epideictic rhetoric; it appeals to the shared values of believers.
These are people for whom psychoanalysis has some explanatory function
within their own personality development. In the United States, this
phenomenon is very widespread, partly because of the role of Hollywood in
popularizing semi-psychoanalytic explanation. I remain to be convinced of
its heuristic value for historians, not least because of its fundamentally
ahistorical character, which it shares with general psychology. My own
feeling is that social psychology and cultural psychology offer better
tools to consider the relationship between historical location and states
of mind.
Interestingly, when the late Nicholas Spanos praised John Demos's sound
social psychology over his more questionable application of Kleinian
psychoanalysis, in J. Hist. Behavioral Sci., Demos was utterly appalled.
Yet it is that aspect of Entertaining Satan that retains value today,
because it distorts the evidence less. Demos could not be satisfied with
merely explaining what could be found in the archives; he had to go
further, into the realm of the unconscious. Even if we suppose that such a
realm exists, we might reasonably doubt whether it is accessible to
historians.
David Harley
Dept. of History
219 O'Shaughnessy
University of Notre Dame
Notre Dame IN 46556
219-631-7313
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Liz" <history@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] listbot query
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:51:22 -0700
> One possible is egroups, who do digests and web only/no mail options. Not
> sure about their academic panache tho'....
They may lack panache but they sure as heck do a good job!
Liz
Elizabeth Waters Heinrichs
history@sentex.net
___________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: [histsex] Psychological explanation in history
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:17:25 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
I have to confess that I was way out on a limb in my comments on
psychoanalysis and history which represented more of 'thinking out loud'
than any expertise. I gladly and with relief defer to David Harley's
erudite explication. My noodlings stem from recent concerns about the
historical limits of Lacan's theories of the gaze, the body, and
subjectivity which troublingly pretend to universality but might be
useful nevertheless as artifacts describing a particular moment in
history. Despite my comments on gaze theory in psychoanalysis I don't
really use it as a historical method since I'm more of a cultural studies
scholar than a historian per se.
Mike Murphy
___________________________________________________________________From:
"Judith" <heyoka@snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Sexology and a question
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 06:23:06 -0700
Is there a digest version and how can I sign up for it?
judith
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Lesley Hall" <lesleyah@primex.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [histsex] Sexology and a question
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 16:14:28 +0100
>Is there a digest version and how can I sign up for it?
As I think I responded to someone else earlier this week or possibly last,
listbot does not support digest messages, and that is one of the reasons I
have been asking for suggestions as to alternative hosts. (Though the one
list I used to be on which was in digest form - this was the deafult
setting - could get completely maddening
when people posted responses to a whole string of unsnipped previous
messages, which all got incorporated in the digest version, sometimes over
and over again....)
Lesley Hall
lesleyah@primex.co.uk
website http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah
___________________________________________________________________
From: Kazetnik@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:52:36 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] listservers
Smartgroups.com does a nice, efficient service with the digest and web only
options.
CW
___________________________________________________________________Subject: [histsex] CFP: Queer Comics anthology
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:17:25 -0500
From: "Michael J. Murphy" <mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu>
I'm reposting this again for any new subscribers. Anne and I are keen to
include an international perspective so proposals on European,
Hispanic/Latino/a, or African comics are especially encouraged. Please
forward to anyone (scholars or artists) you think might be interested.
Inquiries encouraged! Deadlines flexible!
*******Call For Manuscripts*********
Zap! Pow! Out!: Queer Cultures, Queering Comics
an anthology edited by
Anne N. Thalheimer and Michael J. Murphy
**Deadline for abstracts: 1 December 2000**
Submit a 1-2 page abstract and a short CV to each editor. Electronic or
hardcopy submissions accepted. No email attachments please.
**Deadline for manuscripts: 1 June 2001**
MLA citation style; one electronic or hardcopy to each editor- Word or
WordPerfect versions; please limit text to 25 pages; author responsible
for securing image copyright permissions.
To redress the paucity and disparate state of existing scholarship on
queer comics the editors of this scholarly anthology invite submissions
of original art, interviews, and critical essays on the cultures of gay,
lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and queer comics and related media. The
editors aim to unite the best classic artwork and essays with innovative
and exciting imagery and investigations into queer comic strips, comic
books, graphic novels, zines, manga, film or television anime/ation, and
other related graphic media. Essays which address trans/international
comics, race and hybridity, or queer spectator/readership are especially
encouraged.
Paper topics might include:
-queer (or queered) comics or artists
-gay or dyke comix
-queer comics readers, conventions or fans
-gay and lesbian super heroes: Wonder Woman and other Amazons
-original interviews with notable creators, readers, publishers
-HIV/AIDS or safer sex educative comics
-(anti)homophobia and/or heterosexism in comics
-graphic sex (literally) and pornographic comics
-relationship of queer comics to underground or wimmin¹s comix
-queers in straight comics (Doonesbury, For Better For Worse, The
Simpsons, etc.)
-sexual ambiguity and anonymity in comics
-transnational queer comix -gay liberation and comics
-queer creators, straight comics; vice versa
-race, class, gender, sexuality hybridities in comics
-comparative essays with television, film, art, advertising etc.
Que(e)ries?
Anne N. Thalheimer
Dept. English
212 Memorial Hall
University of Delaware
Newark, DE 19716
Fax: (302) 831 1586
motes@udel.edu
Michael J. Murphy
Dept. Art History/Archaeology
Steinberg Hall
Campus Box 1189
Washington University
St. Louis MO 63130
mjmurphy@artsci.wustl.edu
___________________________________________________________________From: "Thomas, Julie Lynn" <julthoma@indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology and a question
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:34:14 -0500
Dear Ms. Bederman:
Thank you for your reply!
Judith Allen is my dissertation advisor....I assisted her with research on
her next book _Kinsey's Women_, which led to the discovery of Kinsey
institute's archive AND my dissertation topic (as I read about sex research
in the Soviet Union [before Stalin] and US researchers invited to visit and
share information).
I don't really consider Taussig a sexologist...although I think his work
qualifies as "sexology". The reason for this is contextualization - I liken
it to not considering Mary Wollstonecraft a feminist since the term
"feminist" was not coined until later. Yet, I would consider her WRITING to
be feminist, since her ideas are read by feminists and cited as an example
of early feminist philosophy.
Thank you for your helpful advice on locating Taussig's papers...
Julie Thomas
___________________________________________________________________
From: Kazetnik@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:25:46 EDT
Subject: Re: [histsex] slippery sexuality
Hi [Mr/Ms] Jencks
Coming to this debate some belatedly, I've grabbed bits and pieces that
you've posted. I'd be very interested to have you clarify some of what you
assert.
<<10/26/00 jencks4@home.com
The Victorian Era had a big influence on the increase of child sexual abuse
that we've been experiencing this century. The Victorian Era taught
standards that women were supposed to be ignorant of sex. This led to the
notion that innocent women were sexier than experienced women. This led to
the notion that innocence is sexy and
of course, what could be more innocent than a prepubescent.>>
The fetish with innocence as erotic vastly pre-dates the 19th century,
although its content and ideological function shift over time. As a single
example, the lust for virgins that was so emphasised in 19th century porn is
in some ways a remaking of the belief (which dates at least from the 15th
century) that sex with a virgin would cure VD. In the 19th century it gets
dressed up in images of imperialism/colonialism (with attendant
dehumanisation), as well as wearing the clothes of the Child as a being
apart, untouched by human hand or mind. Thus innocence which guarantees
sexual untouchedness justifies the sexual desire for the innocent, whose
innocence is the binary opposite of guilty sin, and thus occupies the same
discursive space. Children are not different. They are just not adults. Yet.
<<jencks4@home.com writes: 10/26/00
I would only be interested in changing sexuality that is harmful such as child
abuse. Homosexuality is okay by me.>>
In the context of your research project as you have outlined it on the list,
is it helpful to begin with such assumptions? Child abuse is after all
culturally and historically specific, and therefore (nodding in Rictor's
direction) constructed. Is there (asks she, either in devil's advocate mode
or because she must always ask why) anything absolutely wrong with
intergenerational sex always? Can we imagine a culture in which
intergenerational sex would not be "child abuse"?
<<jencks4@home.com writes:10/27/00
The only problem is that a significant number (if not the majority) of
pedophiles also eroticize violence and/or manipulation. >>
Leaving aside the question-begging 'only problem', on what basis do you make
this assertion about paedophiles? An appeal to 'commonsense' seems embedded
in there somewhere.... And what is the connection between violence and
manipulation in the assertion?
Chris White
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Colin Shingleton" <cshingleton@bigpond.com>
Subject: [histsex] "Near Sex" again & "the active question "how do we come to terms with the myriad of sexual variations?"
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 11:45:38 +1100
If I can go back to the old question, near sex, and to the newer question of
" the myriad of sexual variations?" just raised.:
Firstly I have had further thoughts on the term "Near sex" . It is a bad
term. It almost begs the question that some kind of penetration or climactic
experience is the goal of sex and any preparatory or other behaviour heading
in that direction is more or less near or not sexual.
Would it be that intention needs to be factored in somehow?
Even so how does that include one sided sex i.e. in the case of unwanted or
unacknowledged or unrecognised advance.
Then again there is the wanted-unwanted sexual experience i.e. masochistic
sex? In such cases does sexual intention to allow pain to oneself replace
consent which might by definition be absent from masochistic sex or might of
necessity be absent from masochistic sex?
And again when does the law have a right to enter or society a right to
legislate what two people do even when they are hurt? Does a lack of
preparedness to press charges imply consent? Does presenting charges in the
case of consentless sex mean that the aggrieved masochist didn't at some
level want the sexual damage done to him or her? Do we start from killing
as part of sex and work back to what is acceptable? Then do the laws
covering assault take over?
Secondly If the question is changed from identifying the myriad of sexual
variations or enumerating what counts as near sex which could include tying
a sandshoe lace and looked at characterising the contextualistaion of
intentional and unintentional sexual activity, we might be better placed to
study examples of sexual behaviour or kinds of sexual behaviour when our
agenda is to understand the legal moral normative etc implications of it.
___________________________________________________________________From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] Sexology
Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:50:49 +0100
Dear David,
Sorry, but I do not agree with your comments on historical sexology, as the
object of inquiry (in Ravetz's sense) of the sexologists whom I study is
sexual practice, where the object of inquiry for my own historical writing
is texts about sex. I really do not care if Freud's Wolf man or Ellis' Case
XXVII, or any of Krafft-Ebing's cases did not exist, and I am certainly not
particualrly interested in my interpretations of these characters (in any
professional sense, anyway). They are not my objects of inquiry, but I am
indeed interested in what Freud or Ellis or whoever said about these cases
and about other sexological texts. I realise that one cannot separate
knowledge from practice, and I am keenly interested in the practices used by
sexologists to write books about sex, but as far as my own practices go, I
am interested in how sexological ideas are formed, change, are negotiated
etc., and thus have to be reflective about my reading practices and about my
own historiographical premises... and not in whether the Wolf man really got
off over ideas about his cleaner's bum, pear-shaped or otherwise.
This, by the way, is different to that analogy with historical demography,
as both contemporary and historical demographers look at populations. Any
stories I get about sex I keep quiet about, unlike Ellis and Moll.... and if
I change my mind on this last point, if I do decide to go the lucrative
route and write up cases in a (pseudo-)sexological way, then I will not
become a real sexologist, but rather write under the usual formula: middle
name and street name. Just like the recent publication in 'Bizarre'
magazine by a certain Raymond Lavender, who is not a camp book-maker from
Brighton, but an important historian making a buck on a page about
Schreber.... There's a few good lunches and maybe a bottle of Belle Epoque
in a page in a popular mag, but not a cent from those toiled-over papers in
Social Hitory of Medicine, as you know all too well.
Cheerio, Ivan
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
___________________________________________________________________From: "Jencks" <jencks4@home.com>
Subject: Re: [histsex] "Near Sex" again & "the active question "how do we come to terms with the myriad of sexual variations?"
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 00:05:55 -0600
Great questions. And by the way, it is often more important to ask the
right questions than it is to answer the same old questions. Keep talking.
----- Original Message -----
From: Colin Shingleton <cshingleton@bigpond.com>
To: Histsex:For historians of sexuality <histsex@listbot.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2000 6:45 PM
Subject: [histsex] "Near Sex" again & "the active question "how do we come
to terms with the myriad of sexual variations?"
> Histsex:For historians of sexuality -
http://homepages.primex.co.uk/~lesleyah/listinf.htm
>
> If I can go back to the old question, near sex, and to the newer question
of
> " the myriad of sexual variations?" just raised.:
>
> Firstly I have had further thoughts on the term "Near sex" . It is a bad
> term. It almost begs the question that some kind of penetration or
climactic
> experience is the goal of sex and any preparatory or other behaviour
heading
> in that direction is more or less near or not sexual.
> Would it be that intention needs to be factored in somehow?
> Even so how does that include one sided sex i.e. in the case of unwanted
or
> unacknowledged or unrecognised advance.
> Then again there is the wanted-unwanted sexual experience i.e. masochistic
> sex? In such cases does sexual intention to allow pain to oneself replace
> consent which might by definition be absent from masochistic sex or might
of
> necessity be absent from masochistic sex?
> And again when does the law have a right to enter or society a right to
> legislate what two people do even when they are hurt? Does a lack of
> preparedness to press charges imply consent? Does presenting charges in
the
> case of consentless sex mean that the aggrieved masochist didn't at some
> level want the sexual damage done to him or her? Do we start from killing
> as part of sex and work back to what is acceptable? Then do the laws
> covering assault take over?
>
> Secondly If the question is changed from identifying the myriad of sexual
> variations or enumerating what counts as near sex which could include
tying
> a sandshoe lace and looked at characterising the contextualistaion of
> intentional and unintentional sexual activity, we might be better placed
to
> study examples of sexual behaviour or kinds of sexual behaviour when our
> agenda is to understand the legal moral normative etc implications of it.
___________________________________________________________________
From: Philip Stokes [mailto:philip.stokes@btinternet.com]
Sent: 30 October 2000 13:44
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
I would like to throw in Anthony Powell's novels "A Dance to the Music of
Time" as embodying a particularly rich and valuable meditation on voyeurism.
The principal focus comes in "Temporary Kings," where AP postulates a fresco
entitled "Candaules and Giges" by Tiepolo and depicting the progress of an
event, whereby Giges was invited by King Candaules to conceal himself in the
bedchamber and observe the Queen naked. The repercussions of that mythic
event and its densely woven reflection in the novel's world are brilliantly
drawn and well worthy of the attention of anyone with an interest in the
subject. There is also a good version in the form of a C4 TV film. By some
dreadful omission I have come late to Powell, but lately I have raged
through his work like a rabbit in a salad garden and now commend him
compulsively to any passing persons.
Regards,
Dr Philip Stokes
philip.stokes@btinternet.com
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
From: "Dalley-Crozier ,Dr Ivan" <i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 15:55:02 -0000
Of course, the original--or at least an early--discussion of "Candaules and
Giges" is in the first book of Herodotus, but the question remains, is this
voyeurism, or a matter of 'my woman is pretty cute, huh?'
ijdc
============================================
Ivan Dalley Crozier,
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk
"An entertaining essay might perhaps be
written on the sexlessness of historians;
but it would be entertaining and nothing
more: we do not know enough either about
the historians or sex."
--Lytton Strachey, 1931
============================================
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:07:48 -0500
From: pedst3+@pitt.edu
Subject: Re: [histsex] a review: Romanticism and the concept of queer genius
Dear list members,
I've recently reviewed Andrew Elfenbein's _Romantic Genius: The Prehistory
of a Homosexual Role_, which can be found online at
http://rmmla.wsu.edu/rmmla/ereview/54.2/reviews/dierkes.asp
I thought this might be of interest to some of you.
By way of a brief introduction: I'm a Ph.D. candidate in English/Film
Studies/Cultural Studies at the of Pittsburgh, where I am currently working
on a dissertation on 20th-century adaptations of Oscar Wilde's _Salome_ in
film, opera, and literature, preliminarily entitled "The Salome Theme in
the Wake of Oscar Wilde: Rhetorical Constructions of Woman in Modernity."
Part of my interest is Wilde as a cultural icon. My theoretical home is
Foucaultian feminism and queer theory.
Happy Halloween!
Petra Dierkes-Thrun
> Petra Dierkes-Thrun
> Ph.D. candidate
> Enmglish Department
> 526 Cathedral of Learning
> University of Pittsburgh
> Pittsburgh, PA 15260-0001
>
___________________________________________________________________From: MillerJimE@aol.com
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 00:21:10 EST
Subject: Re: [histsex] "whinge" about voyeurism
i.dalley-crozier@wellcome.ac.uk writes:
<< Of course, the original--or at least an early--discussion of "Candaules
and
Giges" is in the first book of Herodotus, but the question remains, is this
voyeurism, or a matter of 'my woman is pretty cute, huh?' >>
But Gyges is carefully placed as a non-voyeur because he is under duress.
In fact, he is under duress twice, first the king forces him to watch the
wife then the wife forces him to kill the king. Instead the king is an
exhibitionist. He is not so much an exhibitionist of his own body but rather
that of his sexual partner and property -- his wife.
Voyeurism and exhibitionism both depend on a certain level of illicitness
in the viewing. In voyeurism the viewer sees what is not to be seen. In
exhibitionism the viewed displays what is not to be seen. The viewing is
still illicit, but the illicitness is transgressed by the displayer rather
than the viewer.
Jim Miller
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